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[Reelya]

This movie is amazing (youtube: though the quality here sucks) : some guys from Ireland were making a documentary about Chavez, and during filming the coup happened, so they changed it into a doco about the coup. They actually got stuck in the parliament building with army tanks surrounding it, and the army threatening to bomb the building and kill everyone unless they gave them Chavez.

This film has it all, political intrigue, media wars, crazy commandos, army soldiers rebelling, APCs in the streets machine-gunning protestors, killer cops with shotguns and swords. (the Venezuelan cops are die-hard opposition NAZIs who revel in killing socialists).

and like all good movies it has a great ending: evil coup leaders overthrown, elected officials rescued and put back into power by the rank-and-file army soldiers.

From this and other things I've decided: Venezuelan army GOOD, Venezuelan cops BAD (VERY BAD). All the worst stuff seems to be initiated by the cops there, and the army itself hasn't been as directly involved in mass-killings of civilians. A traditional cop there won't think twice if he's ordered to civilians in the street. but the army grunts will actually rebel against orders that are too horrific.

[Darvi]

So basically the world of LCS?

[SalmonGod]

I haven't played LCS, but just from what I've osmosed about it in my time here, I think I can safely say that South America in general is the embodiment of that game.  The history of ultra-violent fascist dictatorships slaughtering peaceful liberals is staggering and USA media is very careful to keep its population mostly ignorant of it, because many U.S. businessmen and politicians (plenty still active today) had their hands deep in that pool of blood.  The initial investments that launched Romney's Bain Capital came from people who controlled fascist death squads in El Salvador, for instance.

It amazes me that it's not brought up more often in political discussions, because it's very fresh and relevant to modern ideologies.  You always hear the Soviet states brought up as a boogeyman against socialism, but you never hear people bring up the U.S. backed coups against peacefully elected and successful socialist leaders brought up as a boogeyman against capitalism.

[Reelya]

Romney's El Salvador financier's spiritual leader actually led a military unit a few years prior to Romney taking their money, which assassinated the catholic arch-bishop of the country, whilst he was doing the Eucharist, spilling the wine which mixed with his blood and cascaded all over the altar. Because he spoke out against massacres. A week later they did a grenade and machine gun attack on the people at his funeral. This was all very well-known in the American press (including which families backed the assassins) by 1981, well before Romney accepted their money.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/deathsquads_ElSal.html

Carlos Antonio Gomez Montano was a paratrooper stationed at Ilopango Air Force Base. He claimed to have seen eight Green Beret advisers watching two "torture classes" during which a 17-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl were tortured. Montano claimed that his unit and the Green Berets were joined by Salvadoran Air Force Commander Rafael Bustillo and other Salvadoran officers during these two sessions in January 1981. A Salvadoran officer told the assembled soldiers, "[watching] will make you feel more like a man.''

Here's the above story but a dated 1982 nytimes archive version. The nytimes one notes that the 2 children were murdered after the torture training, but not within sight of the Green Berets, though other accounts note that US advisors were fully aware but made it clear actual deaths should not occur within their vision.

Here's another one from the first link:

Rene Hurtado worked as intelligence agent for the Treasury Police, one of the three Salvadoran paramilitary forces. After a falling out with an officer, he fled to Minnesota, took refuge with a Presbyterian Church congregation, and began describing routine torture methods used by paramilitary forces. These included beatings, electric shock, suffocation, and mutilation. He described techniques such as tearing the skin from " interrogation" subjects, sticking needles into them, or beating them in such a manner that lasting internal injuries but no telltale external marks would be sustained. According to Hurtado, CIA employees and Green Berets taught some of these torture techniques to the Treasury Police in Army staff headquarters.

General John Vessey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was particularly disturbed by the implication of the Green Berets and initiated an investigation. The investigator from the Army Criminal Investigation Division stated, "My job was to clear the Army's name and I was going to do whatever [was] necessary to do that." Hurtado refused to cooperate with the investigator on the advice of a member of Congress whom the church parishioners had called upon. When the investigator was told this by the minister, he responded, "Tell Mr. Hurtado that the Congressman has given him very costly advice. When I went to El Salvador to investigate his allegations, at the advice of the U.S. Ambassador, I did not talk to members of the Salvadoran military. If I go again and talk to the military, we don't know who will be hurt, do we?''

[SalmonGod]

Yeah... like I said... of all the (recent) things the U.S. gets criticized for, it blows my mind how the absolute worst is almost never mentioned.  When I discovered the Dirty Wars, I had to stop myself from reading too deeply into it, because I couldn't handle the revulsion I felt.

It's also worth noting that I didn't become aware of this part of history until my mid-20's because I had never heard the slightest mention of it before ever.  Not in school or the mainstream media or any conversation.  I first discovered it when listening to an audiobook of "The Shock Doctrine" and immediately went diving for more info.  It felt like stumbling upon a hidden basement full of 1000 dead bodies right under my bed that half the authority figures in my life knew about but never told me.

Stuff like this is why I'm such a paranoid cynic, and information freedom is my #1 political priority.

[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/ireland-probes-death-ill-abortion-seeker-115438751.html

Pro life kills people.

[Virex]

The cartels wouldn't even be a problem if we ended the war on drugs.

This isn't really true. Ending the "war on drugs" (which I support the end of, by the way) and/or legalising certain drugs would boost the sales in the US and as such boost the income of the cartels, because they are the only providers in place.

Most batch-scale pharmaceutical plants can switch their production portfolio on a daily basis and expanding capacity takes only half a year tops. Building time is about 3 years tops for a completely new plant, and may be as low as 1 year for small-capacity plants on an existing chemical campus. A decade is a bit of a long time for the pharmaceutical companies to chime in.

[10ebbor10]

The cartels wouldn't even be a problem if we ended the war on drugs.

This isn't really true. Ending the "war on drugs" (which I support the end of, by the way) and/or legalising certain drugs would boost the sales in the US and as such boost the income of the cartels, because they are the only providers in place.

Most batch-scale pharmaceutical plants can switch their production portfolio on a daily basis and expanding capacity takes only half a year tops. Building time is about 3 years tops for a completely new plant, and may be as low as 1 year for small-capacity plants on an existing chemical campus. A decade is a bit of a long time for the pharmaceutical companies to chime in.

Also, for a variety of drugs, the parts not fit for medical use/overproduced  are simply destroyed. Lot's of that can quite probably be recovered.

For example: Coca Cola still uses Coca leaves in their product, but they have the cocaine removed first by a medicinal compagny then put the waste in their product(Really, it's nothing more than filtered plant ash. Stupid copyright stuff).

[Sheb]

Some guys made a pro-gay marriage video. I now consider banning marriage between a gay man and a woman.

[kaijyuu]

Haha, yeah, I saw that a while ago

None of the stereotypes really fit me though.

[misko27]

Some guys made a pro-gay marriage video. I now consider banning marriage between a gay man and a woman.

That is not supposed to be the logical outcome of that, but I thank you for thinking outside the box.
 
Although, Even I started getting a feeling of "The Gay dudes are taking our WOMEN!". Not supposed to be tntended reaction.

[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/bp-executive-charged-lying-authorities-190951786.html

In relation to the 2010 Deepwater Horizon explosion and oil spill 2 bp executives have been charged for lying to congress and manslaughter for negligence leading to the death of 11 rig workers.

Its about damn time that executives start getting charged for the deaths their actions cause.

[Virex]

Some guys made a pro-gay marriage video. I now consider banning marriage between a gay man and a woman.

Hell, while we're at it, can we ban heterosexual marriage as well? If you can't marry your girlfriend, no one can steal her

[Jervill]

Barnesville teen denied Catholic confirmation after Facebook post supporting gay marriage.

The decision by the Rev. Gary LaMoine to deny the religious rite of passage for Lennon Cihak in mid-October shocked his mother, who said her son has gone to church every week and volunteered around the community in preparation for his confirmation this year.

Apparently, it's more important to support the church's failed crusade against "teh gays" than community service and generally being a decent person.
This isn't the first time the Catholic Church here has done something like this, such as when they revoked funding for the Land Stewardship Program simply because of guilt by association.

[kaijyuu]

That's absolutely normal around these parts with the Mormon church, so it doesn't strike me as particularly odd. I dunno if they'd go so far as to deny priesthood ascension due to simply support gay marriage, but being gay? Yes. Along with a lot of other "sexual sins."