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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1292926 times)

alway

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2595 on: August 16, 2012, 10:11:23 am »

http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/16/13301668-governments-mull-radical-solution-to-underwater-mortgages-seize-them?lite
^Local governments consider using eminent domain to help homeowners with underwater mortgages. 1. Government pays a 'fair value' to the bank to seize the property, as per eminent domain rules 2. Government sells property back to homeowner for an amount less than their mortgage was (as an underwater mortgage means they owed more than the house was worth, so reducing it to that 'fair value' is a decrease).

Also it seems Ecuador has approved Assange's asylum request. :D
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Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2596 on: August 16, 2012, 11:22:30 am »

.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 09:14:13 pm by Truean »
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Scelly9

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2597 on: August 16, 2012, 12:07:02 pm »

It think the final total of stuff the internet gave them while sitting was something like 5 taxis for julian, plus a couple rounds of pizza. I think some flowers showed up as well.
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palsch

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2598 on: August 16, 2012, 01:37:49 pm »

Regarding Assange, there is some serious misinformation being passed around.

1) The allegations are certainly crimes under English law and explicitly include one count of rape. Both a magistrate's court and the English High Court reviewed this point and came to the same conclusions. There is a summary here and the High Court's ruling can be found here. Add to this the descriptions offered by Assange's own lawyers and it looks like a very clear case of rape to me.

2) The British government did not threaten to storm the embassy nor has it done so. Rather they have maintained that they will arrest Assange once he leaves it and that they do not accept diplomatic asylum as a valid concept (consistent with European and British law; Ecuador is subject to a convention of the Organisation of American States that recognises it but I do not believe anywhere outside that convention does).

Under UK and EU law, and the current state of the case against Assange, Britain has a clear mandate to extradite Assange to Sweden, with no clear human rights case to be made against this. The UK must seek to arrest and extradite him to their full ability. This means arresting him if he leaves the embassy, using diplomatic means to have him handed over by the embassy staff, or legal means to remove the embassy as an obstacle. This third path is the most controversial possible, but is possible, either by temporarily breaking diplomatic ties (expelling their ambassador) or under the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987, which allowed for the revocation of diplomatic status where compatible with international law. This latter law was what the UK reminded Ecuador of in the letter they sent that was then taken as a threat of 'storming the embassy' by Ecuador's ambassador.

3) Assange's human rights are not at risk at any point. Very simply the UK and Sweden are both subject to the ECHR. This forbids extradition where someone may be subject to capital punishment, torture or inhumane treatment. Even if somehow he were to be extradited to the US, whichever nation he was in (or both if he were extradited from the UK to Sweden and still in their legal system, technically still partially under British care) would have to obtained guarantees that he would not be subject to such treatment before the extradition could proceed. The only path to anything approaching torture or the death penalty would come through extra-judicial and illegal means. I don't see how being in the care of the British or Swedish justice system is going to reduce such a threat.

On the other hand, I am not sure whether Ecuador have similar legal protections. They have a slightly spotty human rights record themselves, although to be fair (and slightly ironically) most of their recent significant rights violations have been with regard to freedom of speech. I haven't seen anything to suggest they would have to refuse an extradition to the US, even if it could result in capital punishment but may simply not be aware of some law on the matter.

4) The only indication that Assange may ever be extradited to the US is a refusal by the Swedish government to rule this out entirely. This is not a surprising position.

Let's imagine I want to sleep on someone's couch. They say I can only do so if I absolutely promise I will not report them to the police. I'm probably not going to make that promise, or at least not make it and mean it. There is always the possibility that there is some crime serious enough that I will want to report them.

In this case Sweden (and the UK as the nation he was extradited from) would be subject to a genuine and legal request for extradition whether they had made such a promise or not. Were a case made against Assange, given due process in Swedish, British and European courts and found to be valid there is no legal way to block it. As such Sweden is not free to make such a promise. At the same time none of what I wrote above is false; a valid case would require guarantees of human rights and no capital punishment. As such Assange is deliberately conflating two issues; a guarantee he won't be extradited to the US (legally impossible) and the idea that extradition to the US from Sweden would result in human rights violations (also legally impossible).
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lordcooper

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Jervill

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2600 on: August 16, 2012, 08:47:59 pm »

You should probably put that in a different thread.  I don't think many potential Romney voters read this thread. ;)
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lordcooper

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2601 on: August 16, 2012, 08:53:35 pm »

You should probably put that in a different thread.  I don't think many potential Romney voters read this thread. ;)

But we don't really have a fascist regressive more relevant thread :-\
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Sirus

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2602 on: August 16, 2012, 08:58:55 pm »

The American Election Megathread, perhaps? It'd be more relevant than whatever tangent they're on now.
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lordcooper

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2603 on: August 16, 2012, 09:01:36 pm »

The American Election Megathread, perhaps? It'd be more relevant than whatever tangent they're on now.

Just gimme a few minutes to facepalm and I'll post it over there :)
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Euld

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2604 on: August 16, 2012, 09:28:04 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ye gods, I'm glad you're a Jedi lawyer :I

RedKing

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2605 on: August 17, 2012, 08:58:56 am »

Some items of interest outside the US:

South African police kill 34 striking platinum miners, in the largest casualty event by police since apartheid ended.

Russian court convicts all-grrl punk band Pussy Riot of hooliganism for staging a guerilla anti-Putin protest in a Russian Orthodox church.
(Incidentally, I'm wondering how apoplectic the FCC is getting over this one...should they fine newscasters for reporting this story on the 6pm news??)  :P
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:19:15 pm by RedKing »
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Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2606 on: August 17, 2012, 12:14:32 pm »

.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 09:13:06 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Sirus

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2607 on: August 17, 2012, 01:19:47 pm »

HOHOHOHO! AHAHAHAHA! Your feeble mind tricks are no match for me, boy girl!
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Pnx

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2608 on: August 17, 2012, 01:26:07 pm »

HOHOHOHO! AHAHAHAHA! Your feeble mind tricks are no match for me, boy girl!
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My attitude to it is that although she is going around being a he IRL right now, she wants to be a she, so I see no reason why she can't be a she around here... and maybe even a Shee if she wants.

So yeah, I tend to mentally think of Truean as female.
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Solifuge

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2609 on: August 17, 2012, 01:32:31 pm »

I like to think of Truean as a Truean.

Some items of interest outside the US:

South African police kill 34 striking platinum miners, in the largest casualty event by police since apartheid ended.

Russian court convicts all-grrl punk band Pussy Riot of hooliganism for staging a guerilla anti-Putin protest in a Russian Orthodox church.
(Incidentally, I'm wondering how apoplectic the FCC is getting over this one...should they fine newscasters for reporting this story on the 6pm news??)  :P

I totally am not a fan of the rising prevalence of police-state-type actions around the globe in the last weeks, months, and years. I'm really not.
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