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[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/avoid-words-prevent-homeland-security-spying-social-networks-211947512.html

To avoid being monitored, avoid using certain words because they will know.

[Fenrir]

...he will never do that again to anybody.

I think this stands as a good reason to attack a fleeing intruder. Yes, the threat to the homeowner is abated, but this person has demonstrated that he is willing to harm someone to get what he wants, so, if you let the target leave, his next victim may not be so fortunate as yourself. Of course, shooting him might not be the right option in every circumstance.

[RedKing]

Which is not to say villains aren't capable of redemption. Or that someone who does something bad will always be bad or is bad in all ways. But simply the being the bad guy is more than enough for people to want to see you eliminated.

On the other hand, this sort of thing DOESN'T really adhere to someone running away. If you're off the property and running away, very few people would consider it okay to shoot you. The "righteous violence" only extends to the point where you are actively 'wrong-doing' - it's also why the hero doesn't kill the villain until he draws his weapon.

Although the "villains can redeem themselves" thing is honestly a pretty modern wrinkle, thanks to deconstructive works of film/literature/etc. Incidentally, this is why American popular reaction to things like diplomacy and foreign policy can be so painfully myopic and naive. We want countries to wear hats, and we want those hats to be unambiguous. Britain? White hat (at least in the 20th century). North Korea? Black hat. Japan? White hat now, black hat in WWII.

But yes, as that extends to real-world actions, most people would say that once they're a block or so away from your property, you're probably no longer morally justified in chasing them down. UNLESS they've already committed the crime, and it was heinous. Somebody just raped/killed your wife/daughter/son? I think the property line boundary is out the window. Look at how many revenge films there have been in American cinema (and how popular they are). Charles Bronson made a career playing antiheroes who were committing extrajudicial murder, and people LOVED it. The fact that the legal system is actively trying to prevent him from this is part of the trope. I mean, I realize at some point it just becomes ludicrous (think pulp novels and Sin City), but there's a very strong undercurrent of righteous violence in American culture. Not only is the good guy allowed to kill, it's kind of a given that he's breaking the rules by doing so and that this is inherently okay.

Not all that surprising that this gets reflected in real life.

[Nadaka]

...he will never do that again to anybody.

I think this stands as a good reason to attack a fleeing intruder. Yes, the threat to the homeowner is abated, but this person has demonstrated that he is willing to harm someone to get what he wants, so, if you let the target leave, his next victim may not be so fortunate as yourself. Of course, shooting him might not be the right option in every circumstance.

A fleeing intruder isn't a threat. Fleeing indicates he was only there to burgle and had no intention of harming people. It is the ones who do not flee when they realize that someone is home that are a problem.

[RedKing]

...he will never do that again to anybody.

I think this stands as a good reason to attack a fleeing intruder. Yes, the threat to the homeowner is abated, but this person has demonstrated that he is willing to harm someone to get what he wants, so, if you let the target leave, his next victim may not be so fortunate as yourself. Of course, shooting him might not be the right option in every circumstance.

A fleeing intruder isn't a threat. Fleeing indicates he was only there to burgle and had no intention of harming people. It is the ones who do not flee when they realize that someone is home that are a problem.

Can't agree at all. They may have been quite intent on causing harm but weren't expecting armed resistance. Most bullies are cowards at heart. Now, they may no longer be a threat to *you* once they're fleeing, but they could still constitute a community threat. And they could come back with friends and/or armed.

[Leafsnail]

I think this stands as a good reason to attack a fleeing intruder. Yes, the threat to the homeowner is abated, but this person has demonstrated that he is willing to harm someone to get what he wants, so, if you let the target leave, his next victim may not be so fortunate as yourself. Of course, shooting him might not be the right option in every circumstance.

Judge, jury, executioner.

[Fenrir]

A fleeing intruder isn't a threat. Fleeing indicates he was only there to burgle and had no intention of harming people. It is the ones who do not flee when they realize that someone is home that are a problem.

I cut out most of the context for brevity, but I was quoting RedKing’s post about the intruder with the knife and the hostages. I agree with you if we are talking about unarmed burglars that flee at the sight of you, so perhaps I should have noted that in what I said.

I think this stands as a good reason to attack a fleeing intruder. Yes, the threat to the homeowner is abated, but this person has demonstrated that he is willing to harm someone to get what he wants, so, if you let the target leave, his next victim may not be so fortunate as yourself. Of course, shooting him might not be the right option in every circumstance.

Judge, jury, executioner.

Yes, yes, and possibly.

[FearfulJesuit]

I wonder if this isn't helped at least a bit by the rather major flaws in the American justice system. If I know that my daughter's rapist is likely or at least might get off in court, doesn't justice need to be served one way or the other?

[MonkeyHead]

So you feel that if you were the victim of a crime you have the right to dispense justice? Do all victims?

[RedKing]

So you feel that if you were the victim of a crime you have the right to dispense justice? Do all victims?

I think we would agree that that is an extraordinary case AND that many of us would not be so forgiving in her shoes.

[Fenrir]

If that was directed at all at me, I would point out that pouring acid into the eyes of someone who has already been apprehended by law enforcement and eliminating a threat before it escapes into society are not analogous.

[MonkeyHead]

I geuss the point I was trying to make was that I believe that being the victim of a crime does not entitle anyone to merit out justice as they see fit. It probably wasnt a good example TBH.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Let's just say that you don't want to go to prison in China.

Getting raped in the Land of Freedom and Democracy® makes the rape okay I guess?

What the hell is up with you people and accusing me of supporting prison rape!?

I wasn't even talking about the US in that post! The only nation mentioned was China, where they harvest the organs of death row inmates, of which there are unknown thousands!

Well, actually yes I do. Because I've got a gun pointed at him and if he do anything funny, I can still shoot him. Just killing someone because there is the possibility that they'll do me bodily harm is... Totally overreacting.

As any gun instructor will tell you, if you are pointing a gun at someone, you had better be intending to shoot them. Using a firearm as a compliance tool doesn't work in real life.

Thinking a home invader is going to rape/murder is about as ludicrous as thinking a mugger wants anything other than your wallet. The vast majority of injuries from these sort of things occur when the person getting robbed fights back. Comply and there won't be a knife in your stomach.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Compliance is what allows these things to happen. If more people fought back against criminals crime would be less likely.

[Leafsnail]

There's no real need to strawman Fenrir or RedKing when they're advocating vigilante slayings (Fenrir for people who did violent things, RedKing apparently even for people who weren't but maybe could've been violent).  Maybe it's legal in some places but I sure as hell hope that shooting fleeing people remains murder where I am.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, the thing I don't understand about the strawman is that seriously, don't people realize it only makes the target of your criticism look better?

I feel like if I spent too long listening to some of you arguing against slavery I'd end up grudgingly supporting the practice by the end of the conversation.