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[Max White]

Also, this: Finland.

No that would never work in the US, they would call you a commie.
The American Dream^TM revolves around being and/or having the best of everything. Biggest tv, best house, fastest car, smartest kid. Can't do that if you are focusing on making sure everybody has a fair go!

[Lysabild]

Also, this: Finland.

No that would never work in the US, they would call you a commie.
The American Dream^TM revolves around being and/or having the best of everything. Biggest tv, best house, fastest car, smartest kid. Can't do that if you are focusing on making sure everybody has a fair go!

Which indeed was my point.

[Max White]

So you admit to knowingly being a commie? 

[Scelly9]

Yes. I do.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So you admit to knowingly being a commie? 

Hate to break it to you Max, but the last time Lysabild advertised his political views he identified as a member of the Red-Green Party, which is an alliance of communist and socialist politicians.

[lordcooper]

[MetalSlimeHunt]

....What relevance does an alternate history flag for a communist United Kingdom have to do with anything?

[Max White]

Nothing, nothing at all... Yet.
The left shall rise!

[penguinofhonor]

Liberal Crime Squad: UK edition.

[Max White]

Liberal Crime Squad: UK edition.

Needs more title...
Comrades of Karl Marx: Liberal Crime Squad: UK edition: Histories of dental care and trees.

[Loud Whispers]

Liberal Crime Squad: UK edition.

Needs more title...
Comrades of Karl Marx: Liberal Crime Squad: UK edition: Histories of dental care and trees.

*Sign here and here.

[GlyphGryph]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gay-marriage-20120304,0,1129155.story

Gay marriage proponents have finally found their hooks, the things they need to do to convince people to legalise gay marriage.

and the whole thing sickens me - I know the emotional manipulation is needed - you can't reason someone out of an opinion they only hold for emotional reasons. But it's just incredibly depressing. Because you know the groups that DON'T have this sort of massive support are going to continue getting screwed over by these folks - that the sudden tolerance towards gay folks doesn't actually have any carry-over.

It comes down to "people we like enough get rights", and that's basically it. And while its wonderful that gay marriage is finally becoming a thing... bleh.

[Reelya]

"Every time you deny a gay marriage, we kill a kitten" ... might work.

[Truean]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gay-marriage-20120304,0,1129155.story

Gay marriage proponents have finally found their hooks, the things they need to do to convince people to legalise gay marriage.

and the whole thing sickens me - I know the emotional manipulation is needed - you can't reason someone out of an opinion they only hold for emotional reasons. But it's just incredibly depressing. Because you know the groups that DON'T have this sort of massive support are going to continue getting screwed over by these folks - that the sudden tolerance towards gay folks doesn't actually have any carry-over.

It comes down to "people we like enough get rights", and that's basically it. And while its wonderful that gay marriage is finally becoming a thing... bleh.

I think the tolerance, dare I say respect comes after the empathy. It's tactically advantageous and logically consistent against and to counter their arguments. If the purpose of marriage is procreation and gays can't procreate, then marriage makes no sense for gays, who cannot procreate (without getting creative). Conversely, the marriage is about love and family rather than just procreation, then logically gays can get marriage if they are in love and want family, which ....

There are numerous arguments against marriage as procreation driven. First, old people, specifically women, biologically can't procreate after a certain age. Second, some people just can't have kids (infertility). Third, sometimes, due to the risk of birth defects, it's better if a couple doesn't have kids and they chose not to. Fourth, sometimes people don't have kids at all or for years by choice. Fifth, family means more than procreation or even blood relation as evidenced by step-relations, adoption, etc.

Purpose, the why, is everything. Yeah, people should just get over it and bugger off if they don't like gays, but who are we kidding, that's not happening. I'd settle for a step in the right directions.

[kaijyuu]

Re: Procreation arguments.

If pumping out babies is the goal, I'm pretty sure monogamous relationships (as opposed to some free love thing) act contrary to that, homosexual or hetero.

If raising kids is the goal, and not pumping out babies, then gay couples marrying (and adopting) helps with that. We currently have more babies than parents willing to raise them.


Any procreation argument either works against heterosexual couples just as much as homo, or supports homosexual couples.



Anywho history has shown if you want to stop prejudice and hate, get them to empathize with you. You have to get people to see you as a human being, who feels the same things you do.

It comes down to "people we like enough get rights", and that's basically it.

Welcome to human existence. The vast majority of people don't care about those they don't like. You have to "prove" your worth to most people.