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[Skyrunner]

That's a neat idea xD

[darkrider2]

That's a meat idea xD

_{^{fixed that for you.}}

[Solifuge]

Can't sleep in the wake of some bad news about my mom. Tried to distract myself for some time with pictures of cats on IMGUR. Then this image comes up. This leads me to read more into the conflict in Syria, and the greater Arab Spring. This reminded me of the ongoing battle against the suppression of information and the struggle for government transparency, and led me to leaked footage of the 2007 Baghdad Airstrike by American soldiers.

I heard about it, but never watched the footage until I read that article. Two Reuters photojournalists gunned down, and the other civilians who tried to rescue them in a van were shot as well, including two children... a soldier watching a cameraman he'd riddled with holes crawl desperately toward a building, and verbally begging for him to pull out a weapon so he could shoot more. I understand that the event transpired near a conflict, and that it's possible those near the journalists may not have been local militia but enemy soldiers... but the American soldiers were treating the whole thing like a damned game, and even leapt on the excuse to gun down the civilians and their children who moved to rescue them, despite them posing no threat to the soldiers, and the rules of engagement giving them no right to do so. Who knows how many other similar incidents, without any leaked evidence, may have occurred.

As I said, I can understand the confusion, and know that the journalists accepted certain risks when covering a guerrilla battlefield. The thing that disgusts me, however, is how this information was suppressed. Despite that this video should have been made available under the Freedom Of Information Act, and that the cameras should have been returned to Reuters (who owned them, and had employed the journalists), both these were witheld by the US Military. And now Bradley Manning, who finally released this footage to Wikileaks two years later, is being prosecuted for this kind of whistleblowing, along with Julian Assange.

The Arab Spring, the debate surrounding the prosecution of Manning and Assange, and the battle to maintain Internet freedom; these issues are part of the same global struggle to oust corruption, seek social and political justice, and create honesty and  transparency in the modern world. It's like anywhere you look in the world, people are petitioning for change, dissenting against old regimes, or waiting anxiously for someone to make the first move.

I don't feel any better, and sure as hell can't sleep now, but I find some solace knowing that this is what history feels like when it's being made. What a time we live in, if only we had eyes to see.

[SalmonGod]

You don't even get the full context and horror of that even from the video.  Here's personal testimony from Ethan McCord, a private who was among the first responding clean-up crew to the scene.  If Collateral Murder shocked you... well... it didn't shock me... and I still found this hard to watch.

And yeah... that was a completely normal event in Iraq, and even now in Afghanistan.  If you need confirmation of that very hard to swallow notion or are just feeling masochistic, watch a couple videos from the Iraq & Afghanistan Winter Soldier event in 2008.

[Nadaka]

With the collateral murder video, it is important to note that the first attack isn't unjustifiable. There were armed men there. The second attack, against the van? The one where the gunner lied about them collecting weapons and bodies in order to get permission to fire again? That part, and its coverup and failure to prosecute was a war crime.

[sluissa]

I'd be curious what the rules were in regards to civilians owning and carrying guns in Iraq at the time were... and even if there were laws against it, what the custom actually was and if it was a common thing despite the laws.

I know in a lot of countries it's not even strange to see armed guards with assault rifles standing outside of simple grocery stores, just for security against thieves.

I did see that video a few years ago, and honestly, it doesn't shock me at all. That's just the way the world works. What does shock me is that we've so easily forgotten about things like that. (Yes, even myself, this was a reminder and a shock to me as well.)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Even if there were armed men, there were unarmed men, and killing the whole fucking block because of it isn't justifiable. Furthermore, being armed doesn't automatically mean you're hunting American soldiers.

[Sheb]

I'd love to see the US army shoot anyone with weapons in say, Texas. :p (Yeah, I know, Posse Comitatus and all that jazz.)

[RedKing]

Sorry, our rules don't apply to us. (That's part of the rules, actually.)

[palsch]

Even if there were armed men, there were unarmed men, and killing the whole fucking block because of it isn't justifiable. Furthermore, being armed doesn't automatically mean you're hunting American soldiers.

It was a group of armed men and a man peeking around the corner towards a group of Americans. He was pointing a camera, but that isn't obvious from the video, and their believing it to be an RPG seems like an honest mistake to me.

Basically what Nadaka said mixed with what sluissa said.

[lorb]

Did you watch the same Video I did? With audio turned on? And listening to what the guy on the heli is talking? No way has this been an honest mistake.

[Nadaka]

Did you watch the same Video I did? With audio turned on? And listening to what the guy on the heli is talking? No way has this been an honest mistake.

Have you? It isn't pretty, but it doesn't become unquestionably wrong until the van showed up and the gunner started begging for permission to open fire on obvious unarmed civilians. The first shooting could arguably have been legitimate.

[GlyphGryph]

Where's the argument, then? I haven't really heard it, is the problem. If there is one, I don't know what it is or the quality of it...

It arguably gets much WORSE, later, but the earlier bit's still pretty fucked up.

[SalmonGod]

And then there's the part where Ethan McCord's commanding officer is like "WTF stop caring about children noob!"

Whether the initial engagement is a mistake or not, the event as a whole quickly turns into something that frankly makes our country look fucking evil.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Even if there were armed men, there were unarmed men, and killing the whole fucking block because of it isn't justifiable. Furthermore, being armed doesn't automatically mean you're hunting American soldiers.

It was a group of armed men and a man peeking around the corner towards a group of Americans. He was pointing a camera, but that isn't obvious from the video, and their believing it to be an RPG seems like an honest mistake to me.

Basically what Nadaka said mixed with what sluissa said.

I don't buy it. Even a very large camera is not comparable to a RPG-6 in size. Hell, there was an RPG-6 amongst them, which the camera was clearly not the same as.

Only two of the men were armed. If you have two armed men and a bunch of unarmed men standing around them, do you know what is not an appropriate response? 30 mm cannon fire. Shooting said cannon at the unarmed ones while they tried to run or crawl away. Lying to your operator that a van is collecting weapons so you can shoot at it too.

Furthermore, the United States Armed Forces pride themselves upon efficiency and professionalism more than almost anything else, and so I expect such standards as not shooting journalists and children to be enforced. As an occupying force, these men are responsible for the safety of civilians. That is the responsibility one takes on when they occupy another nation, even if that nation's people despise them.

I supported the Iraq War because I thought I could count on our military do get shit done correctly.