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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3827091 times)

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10740 on: May 25, 2014, 08:57:36 am »

Now that the same liaison will visit your fort will it be possible for some of the fort dwarves to eventually become friends with the liaison or are the liaison meetings considered strictly business?

I ask because since the liaison has contact with the same dwarf I'm curious if a friendship might build, but then again the meetings might not allow for the friendship to build.

Since the liasons don't show up as passing accquantiances, I'm guessing strictly business.

You do have a point though that a relationship between your dwarves and the liason would build up over time, even if things are strictly business.
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Witty

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10741 on: May 25, 2014, 09:13:20 am »

What would be more interesting is if you could infect the liaison with a syndrome. How would he react if you modded in snakes that caused vampirism and had one of them bite him? Is he going to continue being your liaison but return with a few hair and teeth from his victims next year? Would he spontaneously change his name during the meeting?

Toady already said that night creature stuff isn't going to continue post worldgen for this release. I'd imagine the syndrome just wouldn't be tracked once s/he leaves your embark site.
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Quote from: Toady One
I understand that it is disappointing when a dwarf makes a spiked loincloth instead of an axe.

Glatux

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10742 on: May 25, 2014, 09:59:34 am »

Will dwarf be able to farm(grow and harvest) tree(for mass charcoal production) or farm fruit tree ?
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10743 on: May 25, 2014, 11:38:01 am »

Will dwarf be able to farm(grow and harvest) tree(for mass charcoal production) or farm fruit tree ?

I believe it was stated that we wouldn't be able to plant/farm trees yet, since proper propagation through seeds wasn't finished.
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BenLubar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10744 on: May 25, 2014, 01:22:20 pm »

Has there been anything that could have changed the stability of renderers other than PRINT_MODE:2D between 0.34.11 and DF2014?

2D is really stable (I don't think I've ever crashed while using it when I wasn't spawning thousands of creatures or messing with dfhack scripts) but STANDARD and VBO and FRAMEBUFFER feel faster/smoother. My frame rate stays around 48-50 (with a cap of 50) with any renderer, so I don't know what's doing that.

TEXT is also useful when I want to play Dwarf Fortress on a machine that has an SSH client and an ARM processor, but some key combinations don't work (specifically, anything involving arrow keys with modifiers and pretty much anything with alt). I'm not sure if that's my SSH client, /usr/bin/screen, or Dwarf_Fortress, but it's quite annoying.
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HooliganintheFort

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10745 on: May 25, 2014, 11:25:30 pm »

Will the ability of switching weapons in adventure mod be added into this version? Just dropping weapons that are in your hand instead of sheathing them can be tedious sometimes.
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Zavvnao

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10746 on: May 26, 2014, 12:38:18 am »

Will the ability of switching weapons in adventure mod be added into this version? Just dropping weapons that are in your hand instead of sheathing them can be tedious sometimes.

I think he said there was sheathing weapons this release?
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dorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10747 on: May 26, 2014, 02:58:16 am »

Regarding sheathing:

Quote from: Yoink
Toady, if this is to be the release with non-lethal combat, do you have any plans for 'sheath' items for weapons? Since drawing a weapon will escalate a fight to lethal stakes.

I haven't done the items yet.  For now I've just added a fast "strap" option that lets you put your items away and take them out with one keypress.  Later it'll be tied to objects.
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Ubiq

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10748 on: May 26, 2014, 04:04:52 am »

That's no bug, Toady, that's an unintended feature.

As somebody who is all too familiar with ninja yaks in adventure mode, I agree; that king just knows a ruthless murder machine when he sees one.
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neblime

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10749 on: May 26, 2014, 07:39:31 am »

When you retire a dwarf site (or if you mod other playable races) will the AI setup patrols around the site using civilians or military you chose? and/or will the existing barracks, routes and military status of dwarves be respected? (on that note will designated meeting areas or bedrooms etc be respected?)
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SmileyMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10750 on: May 27, 2014, 06:32:58 am »

Will dwarf fortress have seamless terrain? Like,if you walk to the west long enough,and swim across the seas,you will end up back where you started? The map would not need to be mapped on a sphere.Just a seamless texture.It would add very much to the immersion.
Following on from the earlier reply, it's a difficult problem in general to map a spherical world using a square grid, because of the non-Euclidian nature of sphere geometry.

If you are at any point on the Earth* and you travel a mile north, then a mile east, then a mile south, then a mile west, you will not be in the same position you started. Close to the equator and the difference is small enough in the human/dwarf scale that it can be fudged, but as you move towards either pole and it becomes so pronounced that a square grid starts to either be stupidly unrealistic or becomes confusing to a player/navigator.

The standard game solutions are either to use a toroidal (do[ugh]nut shaped) universe, where you go off the left of the map and appear at the right, and going off the top of the map you appear at the bottom, or you make the poles impassable and then reduce the problem to mapping a cylinder, which is much easier. A more 'sphere-like' effect can be done by mapping the world as a 20-triangular-sided icosahedron**, but then you need to map fundamentally as hexagons, with 20 pentagons dotted around the globe that really screw things up - very hard to map to a grid, but a good way if you have a 3D graphic engine. Toady's other option, where travelling north off the polar edge of a cylindrical world leaves the player travelling south at a point 180 degrees of longitude away, is liable to leave players very confused if there is any kind of in-game compass which would suddenly switch direction - although in theory this would happen on Earth when you travelled over the magnetic pole.

The problem boils down to the fact that at some point with any spherical model, you will have grid squares that behave very weirdly, so in a game the idea is to hide these weird squares from the player so that they don't detract from the experience. The 'impassable poles' cylinder is quite a sufficient model*** for most games (Sid Meier has done OK so far...) especially in a game where 99.99% of the world's inhabitants would die at that sort of exposure. Of course, in a fantasy realm, where magical heating/protection is available, you need something else - quite often the north and south poles are the locations of the homes of the gods (good and evil opposites perhaps) where mortals can be dealt with quickly......

Sorry to be so off-topic for the FotF thread, just wanted to pontificate on a favourite subject!

* other than half a mile south of the equator, or some specific latitudes near the poles

** or if you're really clever, a multiply-stellated icosahedron

*** in DF, because the grid mechanism is largely forced on the game by the choice of graphical engine, a really good compromise is to use an impassable poles cylinder and fractional time, then either make east-west movement take less time (by a factor of the cosine of the latitude) or additionally make the north-south grid similarly compressed to avoid confusing the player. So moving 1 square would take say 1.00 seconds at the equator, but 0.71 seconds at the 45th parallel. Since the player is essentially limited to walking speed for large-scale movement, the change in the compression effect wouldn't be noticable during gameplay.
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In a fat-fingered moment while setting up another military squad I accidentally created a captain of the guard rather than a militia captain.  His squad of near-legendary hammerdwarves equipped with high quality silver hammers then took it upon themselves to dispense justice to all the mandate breakers in the fortress.  It was quite messy.

PeridexisErrant

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10751 on: May 27, 2014, 06:55:21 am »

Will dwarf fortress have seamless terrain? Like,if you walk to the west long enough,and swim across the seas,you will end up back where you started? The map would not need to be mapped on a sphere.Just a seamless texture.It would add very much to the immersion.
Following on from the earlier reply, it's a difficult problem in general to map a spherical world using a square grid, because of the non-Euclidian nature of sphere geometry.

<snip interesting topology / geometry>

My favored mechanism would just be to reject the idea that our square world must map onto a sphere:  model the world as a 2-manifold or torus, and forget about the embedding.  Simply wrap around at the edges. 

It keeps the terrain generation scaled nicely regardless of location, and all you have to worry about is the way you smooth the fractal generation together to hid where the edges were - which iterating a few times while varying the location of the 'edges' can probably take care of.  In a universe with all the !!stuff!! deep down, where both the skies and the depths only extend a discoverable distance, we already accept that we're in a locally acceptable model rather than a macro-realistic cosmology.  This avoids any issues with map edges or odd distortions, and path-wise the topology is only different from a sphere if you're walking some truly odd spirals (because you can technically manage an area-filling straight line rather than just a circumference without crossing your own path). 
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10752 on: May 27, 2014, 09:02:15 am »

A more 'sphere-like' effect can be done by mapping the world as a 20-triangular-sided icosahedron**, but then you need to map fundamentally as hexagons, with 20 pentagons dotted around the globe that really screw things up - very hard to map to a grid, but a good way if you have a 3D graphic engine.
Good points about the trade-offs that mapmakers have faced for centuries, but one quibble: If you go with the 20 triangles, there is no need to include pentagonal faces.  Pentagons show up in a truncated icosahedron (soccer ball).  If you are willing to keep the player away from the 12 corners, a hex map built on underlying triangles is quite serviceable.


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Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10753 on: May 27, 2014, 09:16:36 am »

This all assumes that the in-game worlds are an entire planet, which absolutely nothing in the game hints at (all of the worlds are called "regions" or "islands" in worldgen, meaning small parts of a larger world).

Lolfail0009

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10754 on: May 27, 2014, 09:19:42 am »

Nothing in the game alludes to the world even being a planet. The entire thing could be a continuous plane with a levitating, rotating object in the sky, with one half on fire.
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