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[Knight Otu]

Second thought: Now that we can visit our living forts, how will we accquire stuff from them without it counting as stealing? The barter system? Use the fortresses trade depot (which I guess makes sense)?

I don't think we've got a final confirmation yet, but yes, you'll most likely trade at the depot in some fashion in fortresses, which should include your own.

Will Dwarf, Elf (and Goblin? Probably not kobold..) sites have shops selling equipment? Will small vendors only sell clothing and armour wearable by the small races, and medium vendors to the medium races; or will dwarves sell medium sized things, humans small things, and so on?

Will there be shops in the non-human sites?

Yeah, there'll be such places for the dwarves and elves.  The dwarf one might be a little weird -- I have to handle their forts in such a way that they are reclaimable and playable by people, but we haven't brought the economy back to fort mode.  So you'll probably buy stuff at a depot.

There's a lot of multi-race sites, especially the human towns.  The objects sold should at the minimum reflect that, and ideally reflect their market.  That's not something I've handled yet, but we'll see what happens.

[Scoops Novel]

Will you swing back round to fixing/improving human towns when Kobold caves are being worked on?

[MrWiggles]

Will you swing back round to fixing/improving human towns when Kobold caves are being worked on?

Human Towns got some touches through this Dev Cycle. And they'll be a period of bug fixes after the release that'll address newer and older bugs.

[PigtailLlama]

Here's one:
Now that dwarven towns and fortresses exist instead of being a marker on the map, will we now see immigrant waves put more favor on dwarves that exist in the world, and less on ones just being created out of thin air?

[MrWiggles]

Here's one:
Now that dwarven towns and fortresses exist instead of being a marker on the map, will we now see immigrant waves put more favor on dwarves that exist in the world, and less on ones just being created out of thin air?

Immigration Waves were being pulled from Population Centers already, with historical figures being candidates for immigrants. So they werent being created out of thin air for the current release.

[Mesa]

Here's one:
Now that dwarven towns and fortresses exist instead of being a marker on the map, will we now see immigrant waves put more favor on dwarves that exist in the world, and less on ones just being created out of thin air?

Immigration Waves were being pulled from Population Centers already, with historical figures being candidates for immigrants. So they werent being created out of thin air for the current release.

The starting seven is, though. Are they? Would seem like the only current logical thing to do with the fine-tuning of their skills when embarking and all that.

[Dwarfu]

The starting seven is, though. Are they? Would seem like the only current logical thing to do with the fine-tuning of their skills when embarking and all that.

It is still on the drawing board as far as what form the start scenarios and "starting seven" are going to take, but it is possible they'll eventually be pulled from existing populations (if available).

EDIT:  Relevant Quote:
Quote from: finka

    What are the obstacles to just assembling the starting seven dwarves as if they were a migrant wave (and possibly replacing their skills)?


From a design perspective, location and skill replacements are pretty much the only obstacles.  Roughly, you're either going to be drawing dwarves from all over the world, which is weird, or you'll have a limited selection of skills available from your area, or you'll be mind-wiping people that have histories (which makes choosing historical figures half-pointless and strange).  Personally speaking, I'd prefer to choose dwarves from some locality with some start scenario explaining what's going on and dealing with having a non-perfect skill mix, with the option to elevate non-historical dwarves to fill gaps.

In the end, it's not exactly a huge problem, if people don't mind wiping skills it's not a hard thing to do, and now that we have historical migrants in general, this is an avenue that has opened up.

[MrWiggles]

Here's one:
Now that dwarven towns and fortresses exist instead of being a marker on the map, will we now see immigrant waves put more favor on dwarves that exist in the world, and less on ones just being created out of thin air?

Immigration Waves were being pulled from Population Centers already, with historical figures being candidates for immigrants. So they werent being created out of thin air for the current release.

The starting seven is, though. Are they? Would seem like the only current logical thing to do with the fine-tuning of their skills when embarking and all that.

Yea, the starting seven and the adventurer are *poof* from thin air.

That might not always be the case, but it might always be an option. ToadyOne has spoken about Starting Scenarios for DF and taking over Historical Figures in Adventure Mode.

[Neonivek]

I will probably never like the idea of taking over important historical figures in game.

Probably because it goes against my videogame philosophy.

Ohh well. It is pretty much a sure thing now, the real question is when.

[smjjames]

Maybe he will leave the option to start like the way it is now?

Anyways, I wonder if they finished with the main list? He said that they would finish it around the 15th, give or take a week maybe.

[Footkerchief]

I will probably never like the idea of taking over important historical figures in game.

Probably because it goes against my videogame philosophy.

Ohh well. It is pretty much a sure thing now, the real question is when.

Maybe he will leave the option to start like the way it is now?

This is why it's important to source your information.  The plan is to make both options available (blank slate and fleshed-out history scenario):

Toady:   That's one way to think about it, and then there is the specific scenarios way of thinking about it as well. I haven't thought about that so much, the only scenarios we've talked about before are these start scenarios for a specific fort, or start scenarios for a specific adventurer, where it's like 'You are a group of pilgrim dwarves that are here to visit this shrine and set up a little community around it' or something. That would be a scenario and that kind of thing, I think even for simulationist people, that's a plus, it's not just a gamist thing, right? Saying that your dwarves had a reason for embarking is a very realistic thing to ask, it's like 'What are you doing?' and even if that does proscribe some actions and encourage others, that's good, right? That's not bad necessarily. Of course you don't want to trammel people or anything , but I think that helps everybody and that's certainly something, like I said, we considered, with dwarf mode start scenarios and getting that fleshed out. It also helps you kind of see the roles of each of your dwarves when you're starting out; why they came and all that kind of thing. I think that's all cool for everybody.

Threetoe:   So falling[unintelligible] asks, 'What is your feelings on allowing complete customization of embark dwarves, such as their personalities and preferences?'
Toady:   I haven't thought about it that much, but I don't have a problem with people wanting to fully customize their seven starting dwarves. We're thinking of doing that for adventure mode sometime, there's some roadblocks to doing it this time. Just like in those RPGs it can be, it's not exactly standard these days, but it's often allowed that you can fully customize your face and that kind of thing. The only issue with dwarves, I guess, is if you can customize your preferences or your attributes, it can be kind of gamey, I guess? I don't know if that would kind of mess up ...
Threetoe:   Oh yeah, we were also talking about the problem with genetics, too. Yeah, that was the roadblock to ... the roadblock to customizing your adventurer is getting the genes to line up because there's genetics to determine appearance and if you want to bring your person out of ... just give him an arbitrary face, it might not be able to find the genes for it, then that would harm the adventurer reproduction later. Especially now that when your retire your adventurer, they can just go off and get married when you're not looking, so it needs to have their genetic information in place. There's workarounds for it though, but with dwarves I'm more worried about ... not exactly worried about gaming the system, it's a conversation we've had a bunch of different times on a bunch of different subjects whether or not people should be able to fully customize or fully amplify themselves and whether or not that's something that should be customizable or something that should be in a worldgen parameter and whether or not people are overcome by temptation, whether the temptation ruins the game, whether or not I should care about people ruining the game, because they are tempted? All of that kind of thing. We've found solutions to those things in the past without really restricting the options, so I think eventually customizing the dwarves, once you can do it in the adventurer will probably be a test case for it, because it's a little easier there.

[Mesa]

They're probably just taking an extra while to finish it and only want to post an update once they're done.
Besides, Toady has been wrong about dates many a time now, as far as I can tell.

[smjjames]

The way I saw it is that he was just giving an estimate and he seems to be making good progress and doing various cleanup stuff.

[Putnam]

They're probably just taking an extra while to finish it and only want to post an update once they're done.
Besides, Toady has been wrong about dates many a time now, as far as I can tell.

He's only just done with the list less than a week ago. Chances are dwarves can't spar without gouging each other's eyes out or something.

[Footkerchief]

He's only just done with the list less than a week ago. Chances are dwarves can't spar without gouging each other's eyes out or something.

Wait, they're done with what?

The plan and scheduling, fortunately, managed to stay roughly the same -- we're still on track to be through the main notes in mid-November, at which point we'll have whatever testing notes are left over to deal with, and then a release!

So we appear to be in the final stretch.  There's a brick of stuff to do, and it will be chipped away at bit by bit until we just have our testing list left.  The dev list continues to be reasonably themeless, so I'll just be reporting back as I do random things.

More list, more stuff, more continuing along with.

As far as I can tell, they're still working on the dev/main list, and have yet to begin the testing list.

(by the way, thanks for demonstrating the quote-from-link thing, that's awesome)