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[iceball3]

Yeah, it's kind of silly to have any limitations in such a sandboxy game.

Dunno if you're sarcastic being, but if you are, you'd think it'd be made an option rather than just as, yes?

[tfaal]

I'm not sure I understand you. I definitely think there should be an option to have point-limits on your characters as we do now, in addition to a no-limit setting.

[Neonivek]

Well the selections of: Peasant, Hero, and Demigod will actually mean a lot more later on.

As for "limitations doesn't make sense in a sandbox game" I have to disagree. Even in Minecraft the game intentionally limits you.

[FearfulJesuit]

Probably the Peasant/Hero/Demigod distinction will be replaced by something more like in Mount and Blade, where you could answer a few questions about your past (like if you were an impoverished patrician, university student, etc.) and it would give you a starting scenario based on that.

[Corai]

Probably the Peasant/Hero/Demigod distinction will be replaced by something more like in Mount and Blade, where you could answer a few questions about your past (like if you were an impoverished patrician, university student, etc.) and it would give you a starting scenario based on that.

Please, no. I would rather be able to choose if I am a musician or a warrior when I start. A great shield user or a great swordsdwarf. If I am a elf or a dwarf.

[Putnam]

Unfortunately, Corai, it's planned.

[Mr Frog]

If that's the case, then I hope it's set up so that the questions are fairly-easy to manipulate to get the results you'd like. It'd be the best of both worlds in that scenario; a logical starting point for roleplayers and a hopefully-straightforward-to-fill-out stat sheet for gamers.

E: Accidentally a whole two words :V

[Spinning Welshman]

If that's the case, then I hope it's set up so that the questions are fairly-easy to manipulate to get the results you'd like. It'd be the best of both worlds in that scenario; a logical starting point for roleplayers and a hopefully-straightforward-to-fill-out stat sheet for gamers.

E: Accidentally a whole two words :V

It's that age-old battle between immersion potential and comprehensible game-mechanics. However I'm sure Toady will find an interesting way of implementing it, really there's no reason why you can't have an element of both: Be given the text description of your choices, as in Mount and Blade, but alongside it have a panel showing you what stat changes those choices represent.

[hermes]

Unfortunately, Corai, it's planned.

I think considered would be more accurate...

Spoiler: DF Talk 6 (click to show/hide)

Capntastic:   What are your plans to make adventure mode more accessible?
Toady:   [snip] .....  So there's the idea of how can you improve character generation, just in general, and also how than to make the game entirely take care of all of the accessibility problems that don't have anything to do with graphics and the general interface, that kind of thing, but just the game itself. So the idea is to have some additional options and the main one would be ... you've got a character who - currently you just create them and they're this outsider who doesn't really belong to the world at all, they might belong to the overall civilization that you've selected for them, but they don't meaningfully tie into that, they don't have a parent in that civilization, they don't have any friends in that civilization, they don't know anybody in that civilization - so one of the ideas for a mode of character generation would be a scenario-driven thing. There are downsides to that sort of stuff, like if you have a Q and A process like the Ultima games or even our own Liberal Crime Squad, the main downside to that I think is that it's a cumbersome way to create a character when you know the questions are just building stats and giving you items, so it just gets really annoying and you have to game the system just to get where you want to get, and it's the same every time. The key difference here is that it really can't be the same every time in Dwarf Fortress because the worlds are all different; it can picks two parent for you and say 'you were born to these two people and you're living in this kind of situation' and then it can have things arise based on just running world generation, just continue world gen from whatever point the game's at.

There's more to the discussion on the transcript page.

On topic with the points issue...

Yeah, it's kind of silly to have any limitations in such a sandboxy game.

I think it's silly not to have points.  There seems to be a general trend in mainstream western games of late to move towards "sandboxing", fewer restrictions on player-character potential and action, because apparently people want to be able to do everything.  Perhaps I'm getting too old for new games now, but I like limits and getting (metaphorically) kicked in the teeth every now and then, and not being able to overcome some limits adds to the r/p experience IMO.

(Incidentally I think the same arguments apply to the tileset discussiona few pages back, there are significant merits to working within graphical limits not dissimilar to the way poets work within traditionally defined structural boundaries.)

[Rockphed]

I think it's silly not to have points.  There seems to be a general trend in mainstream western games of late to move towards "sandboxing", fewer restrictions on player-character potential and action, because apparently people want to be able to do everything.  Perhaps I'm getting too old for new games now, but I like limits and getting (metaphorically) kicked in the teeth every now and then, and not being able to overcome some limits adds to the r/p experience IMO.

I have never had real problems with the amount of points given to demigods.  The only real problem is that I often start with a silver or copper blade when a bronze or iron blade would be available.  Also, getting armor is a pain, but playing as human and raiding a castle for gear solves that problem.  The lethality of getting hit with an arrow is also annoying (seriously, it feels like Achilles was a DF adventurer who only had nerves in his heel.)  I don't start with legendary skills, but I have enough to take on all but the most powerful enemies from the get-go.

(Incidentally I think the same arguments apply to the tileset discussion a few pages back, there are significant merits to working within graphical limits not dissimilar to the way poets work within traditionally defined structural boundaries.)

Ultimately, until the game is much closer to being complete, I expect there to be lots (and lots) of things that use the tilesets because Toady doesn't want to bog down development with better graphics.  Full graphics support would be interesting (though I actually enjoy the roguelike feel of pseudo-ascii), but they will be a pain to create before most of the required content is hashed out.  That may sound like a cop-out to some people, but remember, normal coding projects sit down and decide what they are going to do before jumping in and doing anything.  Toady has notes, but his answers to long term questions are often "We will cross that bridge when we come to it".  While I think his method is incredibly sloppy, I am not going to argue with results.

[Knight Otu]

Unfortunately, Corai, it's planned.

As hermes showed, that's not quite the case. It would probably be most accurate to say that starting scenarios are planned both for adventurers and fortresses, but their eventual implementation is up in the air a bit.

[Cruxador]

(Incidentally I think the same arguments apply to the tileset discussion a few pages back, there are significant merits to working within graphical limits not dissimilar to the way poets work within traditionally defined structural boundaries.)

Ultimately, until the game is much closer to being complete, I expect there to be lots (and lots) of things that use the tilesets because Toady doesn't want to bog down development with better graphics.  Full graphics support would be interesting (though I actually enjoy the roguelike feel of pseudo-ascii), but they will be a pain to create before most of the required content is hashed out.  That may sound like a cop-out to some people, but remember, normal coding projects sit down and decide what they are going to do before jumping in and doing anything.  Toady has notes, but his answers to long term questions are often "We will cross that bridge when we come to it".  While I think his method is incredibly sloppy, I am not going to argue with results.

There's really no reason a full graphics system shouldn't be dynamically expandable. Instead of defining the tile for a new feature, Toady would define its default tile and assign it a token for individual graphic definitions. It should be a pretty trivial amount of extra work, once the system is in place.

[tfaal]

Well the selections of: Peasant, Hero, and Demigod will actually mean a lot more later on.

As for "limitations doesn't make sense in a sandbox game" I have to disagree. Even in Minecraft the game intentionally limits you.

Optional limits, yes. Mandatory limits, no.

[Neonivek]

Unfortunately, Corai, it's planned.

No the description given was not only inaccurate to the version they were talking about

But it was also an option within it, meaning it wasn't manditory.

also

NO they won't be getting rid of Peasant, Hero, and Demigod because in the future Demigod actually refers to a demigod.

Optional limits, yes. Mandatory limits, no.

Yes... It has manditory limits. I'd think you would have to mod (essentially cheating) the game if you wanted a super start.

[Putnam]

There's creative mode and console commands are now implemented into single player.