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[Neonivek]

Toady, with all this talk about bandits eventually destroying towns while you watch, will invaders be able to destroy our fortress walls eventually?

Ok I see the question... but what exactly IS the question? I mean the answer is yes of course, but I am sensing that you arn't looking for yes and no.

Are you asking how long it will be until we have wall destroying invaders?

[Vherid]

I suppose a simple light question:

Will we be able to adorn our forts with bodies impaled on spikes, etc?

[EmeraldWind]

Toady, with all this talk about bandits eventually destroying towns while you watch, will invaders be able to destroy our fortress walls eventually?

Ok I see the question... but what exactly IS the question? I mean the answer is yes of course, but I am sensing that you arn't looking for yes and no.

Are you asking how long it will be until we have wall destroying invaders?

It's a pretty legit question, but the answer may not be as straight forward as a yes.
Toady has mentioned in the past a hesitation with enemies digging through the dirt to get into the fort, due to there be no real defense against that and the fact some players would get cranky if the invaders' tunnels screw up their OCD layout.

Having invaders damage walls also have the potential to screw up players' plans and strategies in ways that the players will deem not fun. So it is possible that invaders might not be able to damage walls in a fort strictly for keeping the game fun.

It can tilt either way really.

[Neonivek]

It can tilt either way really

No it really can't. We will have wall destruction eventually.

Digging enemies as well was confirmed by Toady as going into the game eventually with an option to switch them off.

[MrWiggles]

And there can be several novel solutions for stopping digging enemies from breaking into forts. Players can think creatively and on a meta level. My cursory digger defense include honeycomb pockets of magma. I think I saw someone else post, wanting to make a water wall, under a lot of pressure from a cistern sitting on a very high point.

The OCD thing is totally an issue, but not unsolvable. I think in one of the DF Talks, someone brought up being able to paint brush  tiles back to being undiscovered.  And ToadyOne was fine with that kind of concept. That's not a total solution but a partial one.
 

[BinaryBeast1010011010]

It would not be fair to pit us against diggers without means to defend ourselves. I love the waterwall idea, but if you get diggers in the first siege, will your wall be set up already?

[MrWiggles]

It would not be fair to pit us against diggers without means to defend ourselves. I love the waterwall idea, but if you get diggers in the first siege, will your wall be set up already?

From how ToadyOne has spoken about improving sieging, I dont suspect we'll get diggers as the first wave of invaders.

ToadyOne has spoken about invaders from the same entity learning about the fort their invading and setting up different goals for breaching into the fort. I also dont suspect they'll /only/ be digging. As in, enter the map while already underground.

[blue sam3]

It would not be fair to pit us against diggers without means to defend ourselves. I love the waterwall idea, but if you get diggers in the first siege, will your wall be set up already?

It wont happen. It wont happen for the same reason that the goblins don't turn up with an army of trolls in their first attack and rip through all of your building destroyer vulnerable defences.

[gimli]

It can tilt either way really

No it really can't. We will have wall destruction eventually.

Digging enemies as well was confirmed by Toady as going into the game eventually with an option to switch them off.

..can't wait for "proper" siegers personally. I want walldestroyers, diggers, everything what will enhance the siege gameplay!

[BinaryBeast1010011010]

There should be a way to prevent the diggers from effectively destroying the defenses every time they strike. water walls and magma honeycomb are fine by me but you cant deny that they are quite megaprojects like in what they involve. Bringing the magma up, digging the water wall. Putting it under pressure. All of it seems like a giant finger to the newbies. Yes we can turn it off, but as for now you can enjoy invaders without having to turn them off. I fear overpowered diggers to be able to destroy even most advanced fortress if their overseer hasnt engaged in a form of megaproject like waterwall...
Now just try a thoguht experience : newbiehalls dwarf fortress. Tell me, shall we have to spend 5 years only preparing a pumpstack for a magma moat? How would a newbie perceive that?
Kind of "yeah I managed to get everything up and running, it took me five years but now my dwarves have food and beer. Lets focus on the military...
Aaah crap a tunnel has opened, the fort entrance has caved in, my poorly trained marksdwarves are getting skewered, my defense plans screwed because I could not set up a magma pumping system fast enough!

Maybe I'm not dwarven enough to find it fun but making the game require a mini megaproject from the player for him to see a new feature... Is it an improvment? Those diggas are kind of all or nothing and currently with how maconry works if they pierce your inner walls you are screwed. If we had barricades, we could prepare primary and secundary fall back position, in case all walls are breached but then, why would not they be able to dig straight down ten level and open a tunnel right into the hospital?
I dont like to be a doom sayer but I foresee an overpowered game breaking feature that only most advanced players will be able to deal with.

[zwei]

There should be a way to prevent the diggers from effectively destroying the defenses every time they strike.

(Do you happen to play some kind of mmo? You sound exactly like someone who heard their character will get one percent DPS nerf and decided to launch preemptive qq strike.)

And why do you think that is what would exactly happen?

You know nothing about how many of them will there be per siege. How fast will one of them will dismantle wall or dig. It will likely not be one giant wave of 100 legendary miners.

It is feature designed to discourage turtling. They will work slowly enough to provide opportunity for counterattack or for placing squad on the breach point.

[Neonivek]

Kind of "yeah I managed to get everything up and running, it took me five years but now my dwarves have food and beer. Lets focus on the military...
Aaah crap a tunnel has opened, the fort entrance has caved in, my poorly trained marksdwarves are getting skewered, my defense plans screwed because I could not set up a magma pumping system fast enough!

But you can only do that currently because siegers don't have a non-suicidal way of getting into your fortress. A military should be one of the things you get within the first year.

If you are 5 years into the game and you don't have a functional defense or military in what the game calls a Fortress then you really deserve to be killed.

[MrWiggles]

Toady, when do you intend to have another Animal Drive, or something like it? Would it be shortly after this next release, or several releases down the line?

I highly highly doubt it given that he hasn't even finished the current batch of animals. Sure he added them all to the game but he didn't finish them all in depth.

I'm super sure he has finish up all the animals form the last animal drive.

[Shinotsa]

Double super sure about finishing the animals. I believe he also said something along the lines that he'd think twice before doing something similar again without seriously considering how to make it less intrusive on the game's development.

As for the diggers, they will most certainly have a major drawback. Just think of the resources it takes to reinforce a tunnel that wasn't crafted my expert dwarven hands. Not to mention the time it will take even the most skilled goblin to dig as compared to a neophyte dwarven miner. Plus, it would be counterproductive to have to feed a whole army as the diggers work for half a year, so perhaps the diggers would come ahead of time and regular patrols around the walls would discover them or their work. There are a million different ways to balance diggers that wouldn't detract from the gameplay. Toady has made an amazing game, have a little faith that he'll put some thought into game changing additions.

[Spish]

Will we ever be able to arrest tantruming dwarves again? Personally, I don't like seeing civilians go unpunished for crippling craftsdwarves and destroying furniture.