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[Tov01]

The latest devlog is really, really, really, cool. I can't wait to launch carts full of marksdwarves over invaders.

That would be simultaneously awe-inspiring and hilarious. Mine carts have so much !!scientific!! potential.


Any, my question:
Since you are allowing fort mode dwarves to ride carts, does that mean that adventurers will be able to ride carts too in this version, or soon after?

[MrWiggles]

The latest devlog is really, really, really, cool. I can't wait to launch carts full of marksdwarves over invaders.

That would be simultaneously awe-inspiring and hilarious. Mine carts have so much !!scientific!! potential.


Any, my question:
Since you are allowing fort mode dwarves to ride carts, does that mean that adventurers will be able to ride carts too in this version, or soon after?

Well, in an earlier Dev Log, Toady said that making Adventure ride in carts was easy, and that'd he do that first, but it seems like he carried through with just fort mode. It's probably going to still happen for this release.

[Putnam]

The latest devlog is really, really, really, cool. I can't wait to launch carts full of marksdwarves over invaders.

That would be simultaneously awe-inspiring and hilarious. Mine carts have so much !!scientific!! potential.


Any, my question:
Since you are allowing fort mode dwarves to ride carts, does that mean that adventurers will be able to ride carts too in this version, or soon after?

How do adventurers interact with minecarts? Can they push them? Can they ride, or at least climb on top of, them? Do minecarts provide cover? Etc?

They don't interact with them yet.  As far as I can tell, it'll happen before the dwarves ride them, since it is much easier.

[tahujdt]

Alternative name:
 Underground
 Rail
 Interred
 Shock
 Troops

[nekronuke]

Hmm. any plans on adding smaller versions of siege machines? like scorpions and mangonels?

[Jacob/Lee]

Alternative name:
 Underground
 Rail
 Interred
 Shock
 Troops

"Welcome to U.R.I.S.T., Urist! I expect the very best from this new division of..."

[MrWiggles]

Hmm. any plans on adding smaller versions of siege machines? like scorpions and mangonels?

*dons his ToadyOne voice*

Sounds good. But no time line or promises.

[Tov01]

The latest devlog is really, really, really, cool. I can't wait to launch carts full of marksdwarves over invaders.

That would be simultaneously awe-inspiring and hilarious. Mine carts have so much !!scientific!! potential.


Any, my question:
Since you are allowing fort mode dwarves to ride carts, does that mean that adventurers will be able to ride carts too in this version, or soon after?

How do adventurers interact with minecarts? Can they push them? Can they ride, or at least climb on top of, them? Do minecarts provide cover? Etc?

They don't interact with them yet.  As far as I can tell, it'll happen before the dwarves ride them, since it is much easier.

I remember that quote, but that was before he changed his mind and added fortress dwarves riding in carts for this release. I'm asking if this means anything has changed.

[MrWiggles]

The latest devlog is really, really, really, cool. I can't wait to launch carts full of marksdwarves over invaders.

That would be simultaneously awe-inspiring and hilarious. Mine carts have so much !!scientific!! potential.


Any, my question:
Since you are allowing fort mode dwarves to ride carts, does that mean that adventurers will be able to ride carts too in this version, or soon after?

How do adventurers interact with minecarts? Can they push them? Can they ride, or at least climb on top of, them? Do minecarts provide cover? Etc?

They don't interact with them yet.  As far as I can tell, it'll happen before the dwarves ride them, since it is much easier.

I remember that quote, but that was before he changed his mind and added fortress dwarves riding in carts for this release. I'm asking if this means anything has changed.

Goes back to my answer. It was dubbed easy, just the order got reset. I think it's pretty likely that Adventure will be able to ride Minecarts, as I'm sure it's clearly obviously how much fun that can be.

[Caldfir]

He didn't say he didn't add it for adventurers.  It would be strange to add the ability for units to do something like this which requires the complexity of working in the whole dwarf AI, and not have the adventurer be able to do so as well.  In many respects, the adventurer is treated exactly the same as any other random mook, just with a UI.  I guess there's work required to add interface elements, but that's hardly going to be anything groundbreaking - most likely it will just be lumped in with the 'u' functions. 

[Elone]

Wow, I had the same dream, except it was Tsathagua, two Elder Gods whose very names invoke insanity, and Loretta Lynn... err, long story.

Tell us who those gods were?

http://bit.ly/HRN5UC

Why didnt I go insane from these? What a ripoff.

Anyway, you are all getting hyped about a) launching carts past enemies, b) riding carts in adventurer mode. Firstly, it's going to be a rare case that you'll have trouble even setting up. Toady managed cause he can place enemies where he likes, and they can be set not to move. More likely your "army carts" will land where the enemies are, than past some exotic ledge with them. But, then again, there's always room for various stupid dwarven tricks. Secondly, I will not be looking forward to such an implementation until a fort can be retired. Currently you need to make a thriving fort, elaborately design everything, then kill off everyone in it and throw all items around in it, just for a rollercoaster ride for your adventurer. And when you've had your fun with that, you'll find it difficult to edit even a single tile afterwards due to need to reclaim and then kill off those dwarves too; and when you wish that there was another way, you'll realise that there are no minetracks available in worldgen either, you'll be limited to your several fort tiles to ride in circles. All in all, you wont see many cart rides as an adventurer, until a fort can be retired, or until you can temporarily take adventurelike control of dwarves during fort mode.

By the way, how do you feel about that last line, fort retirement and/or temporary dwarf control? I paid attention to most recent development but might have missed some long term goals.

[MrWiggles]

Wow, I had the same dream, except it was Tsathagua, two Elder Gods whose very names invoke insanity, and Loretta Lynn... err, long story.

Tell us who those gods were?

http://bit.ly/HRN5UC

Why didnt I go insane from these? What a ripoff.

Anyway, you are all getting hyped about a) launching carts past enemies, b) riding carts in adventurer mode. Firstly, it's going to be a rare case that you'll have trouble even setting up. Toady managed cause he can place enemies where he likes, and they can be set not to move. More likely your "army carts" will land where the enemies are, than past some exotic ledge with them. But, then again, there's always room for various stupid dwarven tricks. Secondly, I will not be looking forward to such an implementation until a fort can be retired. Currently you need to make a thriving fort, elaborately design everything, then kill off everyone in it and throw all items around in it, just for a rollercoaster ride for your adventurer. And when you've had your fun with that, you'll find it difficult to edit even a single tile afterwards due to need to reclaim and then kill off those dwarves too; and when you wish that there was another way, you'll realise that there are no minetracks available in worldgen either, you'll be limited to your several fort tiles to ride in circles. All in all, you wont see many cart rides as an adventurer, until a fort can be retired, or until you can temporarily take adventurelike control of dwarves during fort mode.

By the way, how do you feel about that last line, fort retirement and/or temporary dwarf control? I paid attention to most recent development but might have missed some long term goals.

Um, I'm super sure you can still retire Forts, and the dorfs that live there just migrate somewhere else. And if you were fast enough, you can run into the migrating wave of Dorfs from your old fort.

ToadyOne does plan for Player Forts to remain active after 'retirement', and there even been talk about retiring one fort, then going back to that fort at a latter time.

In Dwarf Talks, and on the old Dev List, there is the tentative plans to take direct control of some dorfs in certain context for short period of times in Fort Mode. Such as playing a Tavern Game, or taking over a Dorf during Sieges and going full on Adventure Mode for a short period of time.

[Footkerchief]

By the way, how do you feel about that last line, fort retirement and/or temporary dwarf control? I paid attention to most recent development but might have missed some long term goals.

Temporary dwarf control has mainly come up in the context of controlling your military as it attacks off-site locations (emphasis mine):

ARMY ARC: You should be able to control patrols and then armies in dwarf mode. The adventurer should be able to both go with and command armies. In dwarf mode, you should have the option to control your individual patrol members as you would in adventure mode. Entities should war with each other from bandit and monster raids to full fledged wars. Upset entities could patrol near their sites, leading to new wilderness encounters etc.

Fortress retirement has been touched upon frequently:

I'd rather handle this properly when I get to it instead of spending time on a half measure that won't necessarily be related to the completed feature.  The adventure mode dwarf fortresses aren't completed and retired player fortresses should work with the same mechanics as these, so I have to do adv mode dwarf fortresses first.  Since I'm going to do those using the mechanics in place from dwarf mode, it might be easier to see the path forward to reversing these procedures when that's done.

DF Talk 16, Sep 2011:

Toady:   That's right. So, yeah ... we can definitely improve on that. I guess that leads into ... The dwarf mode legacy is quite similar, because you're creating a new site and that's being left behind, and you're also creating a bunch of dwarves, and when you abandon a site all of those dwarves move somewhere, and they're all being left on site. You're trading goods around the world ... and creating artifacts; those especially are one of the main legacies that a dwarf fortress leaves behind. And then the analogue to ... I mean we've talked about it kind of a lot, but the analogue to retirement in adventure mode would be retiring your fortress, and I think we've gone over that a few times so we can skip it, but it is a very important thing, especially because you'd be able to be, say, the new capital of the whole dwarven kingdom ... when the monarch arrives, if you retired then that would be a huge geopolitical shift there, right, where whatever the old mountainhome was is now some little hamlet or something, or some ghost town, or just a large city without a king that used to have one, and you've got a new one ... So there's that ...
Rainseeker:   Right, so we're thinking that we can retire fortresses and still have them be entities and still have them be technically active, the game considers them not ghost towns anymore?
Toady:   Yeah, the part that we've probably spent the most time discussing is why there are technical hurdles to this, or whatever, so that's the part we'll bypass. But yeah, you'd be able to leave that active mark on your world and you can kind of spread out and cause migration or spread of the dwarven civilization over a few games and then it would actually stick, it wouldn't just be a litter of abandoned fortresses with a few monsters living in them or new places for goblins to live. But I guess that could be part of your legacy; when we get to the army arc decisions of, you know, why did the goblins attack your town? Right now it's because they triggered some kind of 'attack the town' event and then they don't stay there, but if they were attacking your town for a reason, moving over the map and then arriving at your town, then they presumably had some reason to attack your town and it might include staying there, and then you'd have caused that kind of political change to the landscape, where the goblins now have a new fortress that's quite powerful. So hopefully ... I mean some of these changes are coming in the shorter term, and some of them are farther off, but hopefully we'll start seeing some of this stuff ... like I was saying the kind of successiony thing will be the first non-negative changing we see in either of the modes, and that's not too far off now. Yeah, so I guess ... were there any other things about the legacy you guys wanted to talk about?

Dec 2011:

With these new upgrades to the city systems, how close are we to having a 'Retire' option, where instead of abandoning the fort, you give it to the gameworld to control, allowing you to, say, start a new fort and trade with the old one?

Probably not until after we have actual dwarf towns being generated, and then some.

Yeah, since the new city system moves us closer to re-enabling dwarf towns, we are at least descending in our orbit around this one.

[Elone]

Thank you for the responses!

As is, I end up genning one world per a fort. Thus I always gen tiny worlds, as there is no point of having a huge world if I always make my forts be 1x1 embark sites.

Hmm, taking control is one thing, but "taking temporary control just as in adventure mode"? This has a pleasant scent of ability to step outside of your embark for a bit.

[Sunday]

New Devlog says adventurers can now ride carts. He did say that it would be easier to implement adventurers riding carts than Fortress mode dwarfs doing it, so it makes sense.

Anyway, that might actually make adventurer-oriented fortresses more fun. So far I've never gone to a player-made fort in adventure mode, just because it gets to be kind of a pain to get to the part I want (usually I build my forts deep underground, in the cavern layers), so this might make that a bit easier, at least.