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[Urist McDepravity]

Finally, I find it extremely disingenuous to try and end an argument with "just accept it". Reminds me of the classic internet argument where someone says "oh well, let's just stop fighting!" the moment they get the last word in. It puts the other party in a no-win situation where they are either criticized for continuing the argument or forced to stay silent.

There is special "what you hate in DF" thread for those kind of posts. I see no reason why this argument should go in FotF, which is specifically for discussion of _currently_ developed features. Scripting and general ranting is offtopic here and reading his kilometer-long unrelated posts serves no good for intended purpose of the thread and readers who are subscribed to this thread to read Q&A on current development.

Edit: from the first page:

The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments.  Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker, and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum.  Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.

[bombzero]

small side question that seems reasonable to ask.

Have you considered adding a temporary limitation on just how many times a part can be raised? or will that have to wait until pulping/better damage stacking?

just that i tried to take on a necromancer tower with a rather large zombie pop, and could not finish off the horde due to the six necromancers chilling in the doorway.
would also fix the considerable issue of undead immortality in current evil zones, only fix for that right now is magma dumping body parts.

[MaskedMiner]

Huh, does fixing old bugs mean like Dungeon Master or good/evil plants not appearing? Or just the bugs that make game work less efficiently or what? o.o

[monk12]

Huh, does fixing old bugs mean like Dungeon Master or good/evil plants not appearing? Or just the bugs that make game work less efficiently or what? o.o

Yes to both. The bugfixing cycles are loosely divided up into "new bugs introduced with new release" and "longstanding bugs of all descriptions." I remember last time he got one that was like 4 years old or something, I'm too lazy to look it up. It dated to before my discovery of DF, at any rate.

[Putnam]

Yeah, you can look forward to those when the current version's primary grievances are fixed.

[MaskedMiner]

Well, I hope those two are the ones that are fixed since they bug me the most. No pun intended xD

BTW, are aquifers actually supposed to be penetrable? Most ways to pass them seem to be exploits... Unless you are on map which isn't flat and doesn't have complete aquifer layer, but still.

[zwei]

It comes from this incredibly culty community who seem convinced that if you love something you must never recognize where it fails.

This community recognizes failures and problems with DF and is definitelly not silent. I'd say people who i.e. defend interface state as being okay are being met with as much, maybe even more, hostility.

Problem is with people who take it too far and simply become angry and annoying. There is difference between voicing your concerns and acting like a entitled child and it is not that hard to cross.

There are things that will never change (i.e. bigger team) and demaning them is waste of time. Other thing are worked on and everyone, including Toady, is well aware of them, but that is matter of priority. He knows very well that community would welcome polished interface and that it would also bring more people (and donations and whatever).

[thvaz]

It comes from this incredibly culty community who seem convinced that if you love something you must never recognize where it fails.

This community recognizes failures and problems with DF and is definitelly not silent. I'd say people who i.e. defend interface state as being okay are being met with as much, maybe even more, hostility.

Problem is with people who take it too far and simply become angry and annoying. There is difference between voicing your concerns and acting like a entitled child and it is not that hard to cross.

There are things that will never change (i.e. bigger team) and demaning them is waste of time. Other thing are worked on and everyone, including Toady, is well aware of them, but that is matter of priority. He knows very well that community would welcome polished interface and that it would also bring more people (and donations and whatever).

I could point a lot of problems with DF (Toady setting schedules he never completes, redoing development roadmaps each 2 years, excess sidetracking, pointless excessive details, some dubious taste and campy content)  but I usually try to be constructive and I'm never angry with the game or Bay12.
Most of these criticisms were already voiced more eloquently by others, so I do not see the need to make them. This, and the fact I'm usually not positively amused by entitled spoiled brats, is the reason NW_Kohaku always calls me a fanboy.

[Immacolata]

Huh, does fixing old bugs mean like Dungeon Master or good/evil plants not appearing? Or just the bugs that make game work less efficiently or what? o.o

Yes to both. The bugfixing cycles are loosely divided up into "new bugs introduced with new release" and "longstanding bugs of all descriptions." I remember last time he got one that was like 4 years old or something, I'm too lazy to look it up. It dated to before my discovery of DF, at any rate.

This was the case of the last batch of the 31-releases. Old time thingies got fixed, like hospitals. It came at the end of the newer stuff.

[Rip0k]

ehh.. I just admire Toady One for actually doing what I always dreamed of doing, but never had balls to start.

so the plan is:
 34.04 new bug fix,
 34.05 old bug fix, and...
...next caravan arc release? :>

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

also: Stop grumbling people. Nobody wants to read your whining. Somehow you come to think you can tell Toady what he should do with his game. Somebody does something amazing, and all you can do is to complain it's not what you would like to see? Nobody stops you from developing your own game, with all the features you want. Now If you will put all that energy you spend on useless posts, into work, you might even make a good game. You'll say: "It wasn't just a rant, but a constructive critic"   yeah.. right... think what you want, just don't throw your thrash in this topic please.

 ...ehh sory guys, just realized I'm contributing to this chaos, So to be clear: It's not aimed at anyone. Just an unimportant statement. (I will not continue) 

[jellsprout]

34.04 has just been released. 34.05 will be new bug fixes, 34.06 (assuming no emergency releases) will be old bug fixes.

[MrWiggles]

toady, how much do you think the "Work with 3D mineral veins and mine maps" scheduled for the next arc-release will impact the gameplay of the different modes and does "Villager/farmer schedules/activities" have any implications for fortress-mode?

Well, release number 2 seems to be more along the line of more world gen shenanigans. The release is called the caravan arc, but its kinda of undermining it, this Arc is about getting the world more living and breathing for the Army Arc. Gotta build the block town before you can knock it over.

3d mineral vein, if means messing with how mineral are placed in DF geology, then for sure you'll see this in Fort Mode.  Not terribly sure how much impact this'll have in Fort Mode.

Now the village schedules that also probably more for World Gen shenanigans, and that'll spill over into Adventure mode more, probably have little impact on Fort Mode.  With the previous release we saw that items in Adventure Mode are 'remembered' by the game, and the towns, what not are probably abstracted into doing all the farming, warring, ect, but that relatively flat in Adventure Mode.

So yea, this change probably wont impact gameplay to much but it'll make off camera stuff more sane & sensible.

And it'll probably provide the framework for Adventure mode Dorf forts, and adventure mode elven tree things. And down the line, a bit further, it'll probably let Hill Dorfs do stuff.

Who knows, maybe it'll impact when trade caravans show up.

[Untelligent]

I also have a suspicion that random-material minerals will make an appearance in Release 2.

[thvaz]

Mine maps I think will be about mine locations in the world map, probably with associated fun stuff. Maybe civilizations will have a chance of releasing spoilers and forgotten beasts in world gen, and you could visit and have adventures in abandoned and active mines.
As a result, will see more varied industries in the human towns.

If Toady sidetracks much, we may indeed see mountain halls and hill dwarves in adventurer mode.

Villagers schedules must be about giving back to npcs in adventure mode the little schedules they used to have, maybe even adding work schedules this time. (They used to go to houses at night, sleep, eat and hang around the old mead halls during the days).

3d mineral veins is pretty much what it says. More realistic ore veins. Maybe we could see auto-mining an ore vein implemented (a very old interface request).

[Shinotsa]

Whatever shows up, I'm sure the 3d veins are going to have a huge impact on fortress mode. Right now the bar cost for certain forged items seems high, but I think the whole purpose of this is to make it so that rather than having a 8 different kinds of ores on one map, you'll have 3-4 but a ton of them. Thus each fortress will have to specialize in making one type of metal or alloy which seems much more realistic. The only thing that needs to be changed in order for that to work is the importing system. Because if you only have silver, lead, and aluminum it gets rather hard to fend off goblin sieges with those meager 5 bars of top priority steel that the caravan brought after asking for wagonloads of it.

Of course I could be overthinking it completely and the game will stay similar, but being able to carve a multi-z-level meeting hall out of a gold vein is one of my hopes for it. Not sure how I feel about auto ore mining, but since I never thought about it and it'll (theoretically) be toggleable I've not really got an opinion.