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[Urist McUselessNoble]

But one problem with your post. If you did lie on investigating me, you wouldn't have known my issue stance. But, you pressured me by that investigation? You'd be ending up with the actual truth then! That's how I knew it as 'No Pressure'.

That conclusion is not terribly well reasoned. I only investigated one Issue, and you didn't know which at the time. So if I had investigated you, I would still want to pressure you into revealing the other two.

So I get, due to forgetting to mention it (but subtly sneaking it in) you also made your 'investigate claim' on me pretty transparent. You didn't.

Huh? I can't parse what you're trying to say here. At all.

Bookthras claimed to have had a night action that let him investigate two people. I claimed a night action that let me investigate, but didn't specify how many people. Then I claimed a result, and specified that I had one more result.

Where, again, do you see a contradiction?

By not giving it any information and then backing out of it with a reason-for-pressure. So you find my Arch to be scummy because it is too unbelievable not to claim?

No, I find it to be scummy because it is too unbelievable, full stop. Which is what the quote you provide says quite plainly.

This is a bastard Mafia, if I may remind you. You on the other hand, are liberal in Social. How would I not know that you yourself turned it to Liberal just to benefit yourself today?

You don't, but that would be a stupid move. Because I need to get economics all the way up to Arch-Conservative. So I can take a move that I am pretty sure will not be countered (Economics to the right) and that brings me closer to where I need to be. Or I can take a move that will be countered (because there are more social conservatives than social liberals in the game). Apparently I was wrong on the last point, but there was no way for me to know that ex ante.

If the blocklist provided by Toaster is correct, then you outright lied about it!

Um... You're missing at least one premise here for that to be a valid inference.

I'm sorry, but I do require syntactically correct nonsense before I can begin disassembling it. All I'm seeing here is a sound and fury. Which is extremely scummy.

Mod: Check your Dariush line again, please. I'm listed twice, but (a) the votecount does not reflect that and (b) I wasn't informed about any doublevote power!

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Actually, rereading my role PM, it does say that I get to double-vote anybody I have investigated for Economics and determined to be less than Super-Conservative on that Issue.

So assuming that Bookie's ability works the same way, we know for a fact that Dariush is less than Super-Conservative on those two abilities. Which makes him a lying liar who lied.

Mod: There are quite clearly five votes on Dariush, but the counter only displays four. Is this a mistake or bastardry?

[GlyphGryph]

Failure at basic math. Fixed.

[Shakerag]

The goatfuckers' union supports Dariush. 

[Toaster]

Dariush:

1. Dariush (4)<-  Bookthras, Toaster, UristMcUselessNoble, Dariush

Horseshit.

So, let me see if I get this right - we JUST HAPPEN to have two town rolecops who JUST HAPPENED both to investigate me first night while in a completely unrelated manner roleflips at death JUST HAPPEN not to... er, happen, so there's no way to actually check the claim. Well played, except that's bullshit.

If that's your best defense (and scumhunting, since you're not doing that either), then you're scummy scum McScumson.  Given that everyone else seems to have to explicitly double vote, Dariush Dariush.


Actually, let's clarify:  Mod:  How does the frontrunner double vote work, given that players can still vote for more than one person?


Tiruin:  Yes, claim order is a potential problem, but it's just something that we have to deal with.


McNoble:  Your theory is interesting.  Pranz may have been telling the truth about his inspect, implying he was the Social Inspector.


Book:  I see re inspect flavor- interesting.

Spoiler: Claimed Issue Shifts: (click to show/hide)

Dariush: Tried to shift Social, but was blocked.
Toaster: Religion and Social to C
Bookthras: Religion to C
UristMcUselessNoble: Economy to C
Mii: Forgot to shift
Tiruin: Religion to C
NativeForeigner: Unable to shift

Okay!  We should have seen:
Social: Conservative
Religion: Arch Conservative
Economy: Conservative

We actually saw:
Social: Liberal
Religious: Super-Conservative
Economic: Conservative

Religion and Social are one point lefter of where the claims state they should be.  I'm going to make a few assumptions:

1. Dariush is a lying scumbag and shifted Social left.
2. Nobody who actually shifted Economic (or any issue) right would have lied about doing so.
3. From #2, we would conclude that since McNoble is the only person who claimed to have shifted Econ (and it's in the right place), he is most likely a true Conservative.


Following these basic assumptions, Religion and Social are still one point left of where they should be.  If someone who claimed to have shifted Religion right actually shifted Social left, that would account for the discrepancy.  Alternatively, one of the people who claimed to shift Religion or Social right didn't shift anything and either Mii or Native shifted the other left.  Third option is that both Mii and Native shifted the two left.

I'm going to make a fourth assumption- that Native is telling the truth about being unable to shift an issue N1.  Since he wasn't officially a player until D2, that would make sense.

My conclusion, therefore, is that either Tiruin or Bookthras is scum... and my gut says Tiruin.  Book, at least, is able to doublevote Dariush like he said he could.  I need to check them out to see which one the facts back up for being scum, but I want to get this out first since we're time limited.

Opinions?  Issues?


Would today be a good time to use our extension?  I think it might be.

[Mii]

GlyphGryph, I am voting Dariush.

I can prove I investigated him, by using the double-vote thing I mention above, as it only works on those whose stance I directly know. See: Vote Mii. Vote Mii. Next vote count, I'll have voted you only once, but Dariush twice; therefore I did in fact inspect him. Unfortunately, it doesn't prove I'm actually telling the truth about my result, but that's up to you people to make your minds about, weigh it with the rest of the evidence, and so on.

I see. Looking at the vote count, it turns out you are correct. As you say, it does not prove that you are telling the truth about your being able to inspect - perhaps you can double-vote but don't have the ability to examine, for example. That would make Dariush seem less like scum, which would be odd if you were scum yourself (well, unless you want to save your own ass and kick him to the curb if he were your scumbuddy; defending a lurker would look scummy in itself). McNoble checked him too, though, so that would be a pretty accurate guess on your part if you are lying. I'll think the possibilities over a bit more. In the meanwhile, I'll be keeping an eye on you.

PPE: Pranz being able to inspect Social sounds.. interesting, and it makes sense.

Dariush: You're not even scumhunting, and the little you do post are merely muddled complaints. I do not think I even need you to answer my post, for the scumreads on you are definitely over nine thousand even without your answer. But it would be greatly appreciated if you could respond. I'd like some actual content from you.

I request an extension.

[Dariush]

Dariush[/b]: First of all, I would like to direct you to the audience participation rules of this post. You are not able to greenvote yourself or any other candidate.

Oh noez, I missed a sentence that says it's impossible to greenvote oneself. Woe unto me.

Second of all, why are you lying about your stance?

I am not.

I have a hard time believing you when two people total attest that you are in fact a liar.

...completely ignoring the fact that those attesters are scum.

[Toaster]

Whatever you say, scumbag.


Mod:  What happens on a Frontrunner tie?

[GlyphGryph]

Decided randomly.

[Mii]

I have a hard time believing you when two people total attest that you are in fact a liar.

...completely ignoring the fact that those attesters are scum.

Please explain how they are scum. If you are so keen on clinging to your claimed issue, give me proof that you are in the right and they in the wrong.

[Toaster]

Glorious.


Audience members:  Please don't vote for Dariush, as he is dirty hippie liberal commie scum!  A vote for Dariush is a vote for anarcho-communism! Vote for anyone else; even Tiruin is better than Dariush!

[BullDog]

Tiruin.

[Think0028]

The Great Unified National Defense/Assault Mecha coalition throws its support behind Tiruin!

[NativeForeigner]

I agree that it would be a good idea to use our extension, I'm not ready for the day to end in a few hours.

I have a feeling that Book and McNoble are right about Dariush. I'm less sure about Book (he could just have a double vote), but I'm sure enough to vote Dariush for lying and not even really trying.

[Dariush]

Please explain how they are scum. If you are so keen on clinging to your claimed issue, give me proof that you are in the right and they in the wrong.

Let's begin with the fact that two town rolecops in a 10-person game is... how would you call it... oh yes, fucking imbalanced. It's much more likely that one of them is lying, even more likely than that is that they're both lying. Also, there's Book's scummy behavior from D1, which I've mentioned back then.

PPE:

vote Dariush for lying and not even really trying.

[citation needed]