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[Antioch]

Warcraft 3 is a weird rts because it relies so much on heroes that it already was half a MOBA on its own.

Its not surprising that DoTA originated as a warcraft 3 mod.

[Imic]

Warcraft 3 is a weird rts because it relies so much on heroes that it already was half a MOBA on its own.

Its not surprising that DoTA originated as a warcraft 3 mod.

The entire MOBA genre originated from DoTA.

[MrRoboto75]

I did go back sc1 since its free after the HD Remastered Version.  I forgot how good the background music was.

[Telgin]

Same here.  I really loved the music in it.

Playing through the single player campaign again has also reminded me why I will never play it with online multiplayer.  I rely way too much on just steamrolling, which really only works in single player.

I also find it funny how, by the time I got back to the zerg Brood War campaign, the AI was showing me how wrong I was about units I dismissed up until then.

During terran campaign: "Man, valkyries really suck.  Not enough damage.  3 supply?  Forget that."
During zerg campaign: "Did those handful of valkyries really just wipe out my 24 mutalisks?  Mutalisks suck!"

During early zerg campaign: "Man, ultralisks kind of suck.  They're too big and don't do enough damage."
Later in zerg campaign: "Did three ultralisks just walk over my base defenses and turbo wreck everything?"

During original zerg campaign: "Man, defilers suck.  The enemy just detects and kills them."
During Brood War protoss campaign: "Stop plaguing my carriers!!!"

[Frumple]

Warcraft 3 is a weird rts because it relies so much on heroes that it already was half a MOBA on its own.

Its not surprising that DoTA originated as a warcraft 3 mod.

The entire MOBA genre originated from DoTA.

Maybe the term, but DotA originated as an AoS map, and those things trace back to starcraft 1. The original Aeon of Strife map was a bit different from the competitive lane based stuff the style shifted into, but there were others during the time period (Romance of the Three Kingdoms based ones were the most common I can recall) that were about as dead on as you could get with the game's engine.

Starcraft I always irritated me in that I can only select a dozen units at once.

That was the case with Warcraft 3 as well. Starcraft 2 doesn't have that limitation, though.

And it's from yesterday and I don't care, but it's possibly worth noting both SC1 and WC3 custom maps had their attempts at getting around that limitation. The latter, unsurprisingly, having much more elegant (and functional, for that matter) methods... eventually.

Pretty sure anyone that played SC1 maps very long remembers trying to get things to go places by making a zergling/zealot/civilian/scv have a seizure on top of a beacon, though.

... in any case, I still occasionally get pangs for the old LotR maps in starcraft 1. Usually heavily scripted, autospawn rather than much of an economy, centered around back and forth capture of regions of the map by way of special units supporting mass hordes of other junk... good stuff. Roughly analogous to an AoS without lanes, which has always been the direction I wished the things had gone in general instead of down the DotA pit. They got pretty neat as time went on and folks sussed out more editor tricks.

Don't think I've seen a WC3 or SC2 map intended to mimic the style that really felt the same, though SC2 ones definitely got closer by a significant amount. WC3's engine made much anything involving lots of units trend pretty hard towards unpleasant.

[StagnantSoul]

WC3 was awesome, probably my best experience with an RTS' multiplayer. In SC2 people get pissed at me for making certain units, not knowing when exactly to do what, not expanding at the exact moment. Had a guy pissed at me on a train mission telling me I made him waste an extra minute on this mission cause I didn't set up my siege tanks fast enough.

[nenjin]

WC2 and D2 were the pinnacle of my Blizzard experiences. I was super hyped for WC3 based on my love of 2, but it fell flat for me because it become so heavily character driven. Story in WC2 was pretty light by comparison but now there were full voice actors, scripted quest maps, multiple race campaigns and....I dunno. I felt like there was a lot of glam but sort of a lack of substance, although I appreciate that's not really fair because WC3 did change a ton of stuff.

For me it's been downhill with all Blizzard games from there though. D2 to D3 felt like the same kind of transition WC made from WC2 to WC3. A lot of visuals and glam, a lot of story but I found myself profoundly disappointed with what I felt like were fewer options to play with. God the D3 story was bad too, so overblown.

[MrRoboto75]

Diablo 2 is amazing.

I had the first diablo (because battlechest) but never really played it.  Instead I played a game called Fate, which was basically a clone of D1.  One town and one big (random) dungeon, random loot, and a pet dog or cat you could transform with fish or use to mule loot and sell it at the surface while you dungeon.  Even had the D2 socket/gem system, and a vendor that gambled expensive random stuff.

Fate had no character classes, you started with a blank slate and as you leveled up you increased attributes and invested skill points into more weapon damage (not unlike the barbarian's weapon masteries) or into stuff like dual wielding or more power in your spells.

[Baffler]

Never could get WC1 or 2 to work on my computer for whatever reason, but Warcraft 3 is one of my all-time favorite games even if I never was any good at it, and it's still knocking around (Frozen Throne included) on my personal flash drive even if I haven't actually played it in years. Maybe I'll give it a go and see how it's aged.

[nenjin]

Fate is still around. Could never get in to it, a little too cartoony for me after cracking out for a good hundred hours in Diablo.

I think I honestly still had the most fun with WC1. I spent so much time just building ever bigger forts, making cities and arranging stuff in them thematically. I made so much out of relatively so little back then. I put a lot of time in to WC2 doing the same thing, building custom maps. Maybe that's why I didn't enjoy WC3 as much. It felt harder to, I dunno, imagine what you wanted when you had all this glam and art direction going on.

[Asgarus]

Warcraft 3 is a weird rts because it relies so much on heroes that it already was half a MOBA on its own.

Its not surprising that DoTA originated as a warcraft 3 mod.

The entire MOBA genre originated from DoTA.

Maybe the term, but DotA originated as an AoS map, and those things trace back to starcraft 1. The original Aeon of Strife map was a bit different from the competitive lane based stuff the style shifted into, but there were others during the time period (Romance of the Three Kingdoms based ones were the most common I can recall) that were about as dead on as you could get with the game's engine.

Starcraft I always irritated me in that I can only select a dozen units at once.

That was the case with Warcraft 3 as well. Starcraft 2 doesn't have that limitation, though.

And it's from yesterday and I don't care, but it's possibly worth noting both SC1 and WC3 custom maps had their attempts at getting around that limitation. The latter, unsurprisingly, having much more elegant (and functional, for that matter) methods... eventually.

Pretty sure anyone that played SC1 maps very long remembers trying to get things to go places by making a zergling/zealot/civilian/scv have a seizure on top of a beacon, though.

... in any case, I still occasionally get pangs for the old LotR maps in starcraft 1. Usually heavily scripted, autospawn rather than much of an economy, centered around back and forth capture of regions of the map by way of special units supporting mass hordes of other junk... good stuff. Roughly analogous to an AoS without lanes, which has always been the direction I wished the things had gone in general instead of down the DotA pit. They got pretty neat as time went on and folks sussed out more editor tricks.

Don't think I've seen a WC3 or SC2 map intended to mimic the style that really felt the same, though SC2 ones definitely got closer by a significant amount. WC3's engine made much anything involving lots of units trend pretty hard towards unpleasant.

I've never really gotten into SC1, but there were some interesting ways people managed unit control in WC3 funmaps. Groups like in Dawn of War for example.

There were some LotR maps in WC3, exactly how you describe them. I've never really enjoyed them, but my brother played them a lot. Can't remember the names either, unfortunately.

And yeah, the WC3 engine was very limited when it came to mass units.

[Damiac]

WC2 and D2 were the pinnacle of my Blizzard experiences. I was super hyped for WC3 based on my love of 2, but it fell flat for me because it become so heavily character driven. Story in WC2 was pretty light by comparison but now there were full voice actors, scripted quest maps, multiple race campaigns and....I dunno. I felt like there was a lot of glam but sort of a lack of substance, although I appreciate that's not really fair because WC3 did change a ton of stuff.

For me it's been downhill with all Blizzard games from there though. D2 to D3 felt like the same kind of transition WC made from WC2 to WC3. A lot of visuals and glam, a lot of story but I found myself profoundly disappointed with what I felt like were fewer options to play with. God the D3 story was bad too, so overblown.

Same for me.  WC3 was a disappointment, especially since it was developed as a small squad strategic rts without base building, then eventually they realized that wasn't going to be popular, so it went back into the more standard RTS landscape.  I mean, it did great things for gaming, and although tower defense maps already existed in SC, WC3 was able to really define the genre.  Same with the DoTa likes, although I was never into those.

Diablo 3 at least was kind enough to admit it was going to suck (for me at least) early on, so I knew to stay away.  Besides, once activision got hold of blizzard, we all knew it was just a zombie wearing blizzard's skin...  Blizzard isn't the mark of quality it used to be, and that's a real shame.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

WC3 was one of my first RTSes and I thought the story + expansions was absolutely fantastic. Warcraft lore has been developed fairly well over the years--it's not perfect, but it's very rich. That only kept me entertained for a short while, the custom maps were definitely the best and none were better than Undead Assault, SWAT, and any of the others which required teamwork. Those were awesome-sauce. DotA was shit imo, as is the MOBA genre. But I spent a lot of hours on Undead Assault, which has led to games such as The Red Solstice, Alien Swarm and a boatload of others which I enjoy immensely.

[Frumple]

There were some LotR maps in WC3, exactly how you describe them. I've never really enjoyed them, but my brother played them a lot. Can't remember the names either, unfortunately.

Some of them were straight up LotR maps, still. Handful based on Warcraft lore (Azeroth Wars comes to mind; if for some reason you want to watch people play it, there's at least a few dozen hours of gameplay vids on youtube), some on other franchises or original stuff. Occasionally based on real life, though those tended to be more in the direction of civ-like stuff.

There's a good... at least six or seven, maybe a dozen or more, maps of that sort that were top tier-ish so far as WC3 went, though. Did about as good a job as possible in WC3 and still able to be played online, heh. Half want to say there's still one or two getting the occasional update, even.

Fate is still around. Could never get in to it, a little too cartoony for me after cracking out for a good hundred hours in Diablo.

Iirc the devs went on to make the torchlight games, which've ended pretty alright as that sort of style of game goes.

I remember fate pretty well, and fairly unpleasantly, heh. Somehow managed to be more grindy than diablo was (and not really in a good way), and the combat always felt sorta' clunky, problems more mechanical than aesthetic, for me. Had at least one good idea, though, with the way it handled pet vender trash management. Not as good a one on that front as, say, the latest ToME, but it was a nice QoL improvement at the time regardless.