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Author Topic: Some General Suggestions  (Read 1467 times)

TheSummoner

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Some General Suggestions
« on: July 16, 2010, 04:34:25 pm »

Cleaning Designation
Probably doesn't need to be explained, but here goes anyways... The ability to designate places to be cleaned.  Currently, Dwarves seem a bit picky about cleaning.  If a spot was designated to be cleaned, the job would just as likely pick up the cleaning job as they would any other labor they have enabled.  If they have no other labors enabled, they would go right to clean it up immediately.

Treating Misc. Fluids Like Water
By misc. fluids, I mean blood, ichor, grime, mud, vomit, alcohol etc...  In the current system, fluids are measured from 0 to 7.  This is likely a result of the outdated way creature size was determined.  For this suggestion to make sense, the number of units of a liquid that could fit on any given tile would need to be redone... perhaps 0 to 100 with 10 points of a liquid being able to fit on a single tile without flowing to the next.  The reason that would need to be redone for this suggestion is that it wouldn't make sense for a Dwarf to bleed enough blood to drown himself in without dropping dead from his injuries.  There wouldn't be much use for this suggestion in itself, but it ties into some of the other suggestions... Though it would be pretty Dwarfy to build a temple to Armok with a moat of blood.

Filling Barrels with Fluids
This could be done in two ways… The first by ordering Dwarves to collect the fluids with buckets (perhaps each bucket could hold a maximum of 10 levels of a fluid) and pouring them into a barrel (this could be ordered at a number of workshops… both Still and Farmer’s make sense to me, but they aren’t the only options).

The second method would be from a screw pump.  A Dwarf with pumping labor would carry a barrel to the pump and fill it to the top from a pool of your chosen liquid.  In the case of magma, the pumpers would know to use magma-safe barrels or cancel the job if none are available.

These barrels can then be used to transport the liquids to new pits or do as you choose with them.

Alternative Catapult Ammo
Based on my last two suggestions, you probably have a pretty good idea where I’m going with this one… The ability to launch barrels at invaders.  Fight off goblins by launching barrels of magma at them to burn them alive… Or on frozen maps/cold maps during winter, barrels of water that will freeze them alive when they burst… Launch alcohol at them and then light a fire to burn them alive (for this last one to be of any use, the AI issues with fire would likely need to be resolved first… Making creatures smart enough to stop drop and roll when on fire… Being soaked with alcohol would make it harder to put the fire out or something).

Mobile Siege Engines
Siege engines being able to move without having to be deconstructed and reconstructed.  They would still need to be operated by a Dwarf/Invader to be of any use or to move.  This would likely be more useful for invaders than Dwarves… atleast until we can siege enemy civilizations.

Invaders Scattering While Retreating
Currently, when you break an invasion, the goblins (or whatever mod race you have) have a tendency to all run away in the same direction, making it fairly easy to chase them down and slaughter the lot of them.  If they all ran in random directions, it would make it harder to kill them all.  Survivors would report back to their home civilization as part of the planned improvements to sieges, giving future invaders a better idea of how to attack.

Non-Military Invaders
Before anything else, let me say that I KNOW Toady already plans to make sieges more difficult.  This is a suggestion of HOW to do that, not just saying to do it.

The suggestion is for invaders to occasionally bring workers along with them to help an invasion.  If they bring Miners, they will attempt to tunnel into your fortress.  If they bring Carpenters/Masons, they will attempt to build bridges and ramps to get across your defenses.  If they bring Siege Operators, you’re in for a great deal of pain.

Non-Military invaders would instantly retreat if they are attacked or see Dwarven military, similar to how Dwarven civilians run when they see invaders/wild animals/their shadows.

Fire
The ability to build campfires, torches, standing torches, and things of the like.  Caverns are (or should be) quite dark and Dwarves should require a light source to be able to see underground (cave adaptation could lessen this by giving Dwarves better sight in the dark).  If a campfire is left burning for too long unattended, it could cause a forest fire (though you might actually want this).  If your Dwarf drops his torch or a berserk Dwarf/invader destroys a standing torch, the same could happen.  Lighting these would require the Wood Burner labor and they would occasionally need new wood put on them (done automatically by default).

Burning Ammo
The ability to prepare bolts/arrows/whatever to be lit on fire.  Marksdwarves using prepared ammo would light their bolts before shooting them if they’re close to a source of fire.  This would slightly reduce the rate of fire, but increase the damage and have a chance to light the invaders on fire… even more if you presoak them by launching barrels of booze at them.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:58:44 pm by TheSummoner »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 05:35:07 pm »

When suggestion, you should probably avoid lists of suggestions that have completely unrelated subjects... they tend to get ignored.  (It also gives a vibe of "I just wrote down everything I just thought up" instead of the impression you want to give, which is "I spent time researching and thinking about this".)

Also, this forum tends to get an awful lot of the same handful of suggestions over and over again.  Things like seige engines get discussed all the time, and there are some very long threads on virtually any aspect of medieval or renaissance warfare you can think of.  You're probably better off using the search function, and finding one of those to read up on and comment on.  Still, Toady is basically prepared to add plenty of new seige equipment, seige engineering, including things like seige towers or constructing bridges to cross moats, and more advanced seiging AI that learns where your deathtraps are and avoids them, and the like.

Fire isn't quite as common, but people have been doing things like "dwarven fireplaces" quite often.  Problem is, the deficient happiness system and the lack of any real way to impliment a happiness system means there's no real problem for fireplaces to solve.

Making burning ammo is actually possible by some modding hijinx right now.  Still, it's presumed this is on the slate for Toady.

Exploding seige ammo is also another commonly suggested idea... someone just a week ago did something about filling ballista bolts with magma.

Adding in more things to be treated like fluid was actually common longer ago, but hasn't been seen as much recently.  (Blood is popular.) The problem with that is that it would require a complete overhaul of how map data is stored, since there's only a boolean bit toggling between magma and water. 

The cleaning designation thing is the only one I can't say off the top of my head I've seen before, but I haven't been here for a couple months...
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TheSummoner

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 05:57:01 pm »

They actually are related...

Several things go together, launching booze, fire and flaming ammo for example.

But I get your point
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:59:06 pm by TheSummoner »
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Pilsu

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 01:41:16 am »

Reality doesn't really agree with a big chunk of these.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 02:41:40 am »

The cleaning designation thing is the only one I can't say off the top of my head I've seen before, but I haven't been here for a couple months...

It's quite popular.
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pazuzu

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 09:30:38 am »

Reality doesn't really agree with a big chunk of these.

Reality doesn't much agree with dwarves, goblins, elves and trolls much either, but who cares?

I strongly agree on the original post, all of it.
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TheyTarget

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 02:30:33 pm »

I always assumed dwarfs were born in the dark and as such, have some form of darkvision (In dnd, you see black and white when theres no light, otherwise normal). So light sources just seem unnecessary. Especially, when my other though is at least they would have low light vision (similar to cats, but much better). In which case, light especially like daylight, is so bright it blinds you, and actually hampers vision. My two cents. Your other suggestions I either accept or thing is a good idea.
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TheSummoner

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 05:31:16 pm »

Pilsu - Which of my suggestions contradict reality?  The only one I can see is the bit about being able to launch barrels of water and them not freezing until they shatter... while this isn't realistic, it fits with the way Dwarf Fortress works as things are now.

TheyTarget - A good point, but the fact that they don't vomit until cave adaptation sets in suggests that the sun doesn't bother them... atleast initially.  Dwarves would certainly see better underground than humans or elves, but they still wouldn't be able see everything.  Perhaps a Dwarf could see a maximum of 20 tiles in any direction but a human or elf could only see 10.  Though I've never actually played, doesn't D&D's darkvision have a limited range... 60 feet or something like that?  Perhaps having a decently lit fortress could help Dwarves spot stealthed units or improve trade relations by making guests feel more welcome.  If nothing else, a source of fire would be needed for burning ammo.
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FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 05:58:43 pm »

Maybe torches should only *really* be needed for the cavern... like, dwarves can see a short distance inside, but if you're going to have any chance of seeing invaders before they're on top of you...

i.e., every enemy in untorched darkness counts as sneaking.
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antymattar

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2010, 11:07:12 am »

I'm all For this shit!!! Bring it on man!!!

TheyTarget

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 10:10:57 pm »

Pilsu - Which of my suggestions contradict reality?  The only one I can see is the bit about being able to launch barrels of water and them not freezing until they shatter... while this isn't realistic, it fits with the way Dwarf Fortress works as things are now.

TheyTarget - A good point, but the fact that they don't vomit until cave adaptation sets in suggests that the sun doesn't bother them... atleast initially.  Dwarves would certainly see better underground than humans or elves, but they still wouldn't be able see everything.  Perhaps a Dwarf could see a maximum of 20 tiles in any direction but a human or elf could only see 10.  Though I've never actually played, doesn't D&D's darkvision have a limited range... 60 feet or something like that?  Perhaps having a decently lit fortress could help Dwarves spot stealthed units or improve trade relations by making guests feel more welcome.  If nothing else, a source of fire would be needed for burning ammo.

Yeah it does have a set vision limit. But with some creatures, with darkvision, and low light visions.  You can get instances where I can see with the torch lit 60 feet, but if I put it out I see 120 feet.This would be simply because the touch light only goes 60 feet so low light wouldnt help me past that. Also usually eyes cant see both in the dark and light at the same time as far as I know, you know if your standing in the light you can only see the light, if you're in the dark you see everything. Also in DND, there are creatures that 100% live in the dark caverns so light never touches their eyes. But yeah, better fire, and cats, and dogs cant see in complete darkness anyways. I would have got back faster sorry.
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This is a platinum warhammer. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. it menaces with spikes of platinum.
there is an image of the goblin Utes Gozrusrozsnus and dwarves in elf bone. The goblin is making a plaintive gesture. the dwarves are striking a menacing pose.
this image relates to the slaying of Utes Gozrusroz

sockless

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 11:53:07 pm »

I second the idea of fluids in barrels, particularly water barrels. Since it's rather annoying when you have a biome where water sources dry up and you need water for hospital patients.
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nbonaparte

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 12:04:40 am »

When suggestion, you should probably avoid lists of suggestions that have completely unrelated subjects... they tend to get ignored.  (It also gives a vibe of "I just wrote down everything I just thought up" instead of the impression you want to give, which is "I spent time researching and thinking about this".)
all of your suggestions are like that, and I applaud you for it, but a good idea is a good idea.
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thijser

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Re: Some General Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 03:49:26 am »

for the new fluids you would probably need a more detailed amout of fluids however here is a problem: If you move with only 7/7 of a certain fluid it means we are talking about a 3 bit system. If you want to go to 100 you are talking about a 7 bit system making the fps drop caused by moving liquids 2 1/3 more. This is something to consider aswell.

If I'm correct however the new fluids are already planned.
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