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[Neonivek]

Sorry it is a Pet Peave of mine to see people use certain terms incorrectly.

Like when people apply Yin and Yan to Contradictory opposites, when they are complimentary opposites.

Ohh Black Sheep and White Panther (I THINK it is a Panther, it could be a Tiger or something)

[mickel]

Nirvana means different things depending on the religion, but generally speaking it's a state of complete happiness you achieve when you have rid yourself of all cravings and instincts, and therefore suffering. You are then released from the karmic bondage (and worldly existence).

Simply "being in the zone" isn't even close.

I would imagine art made by someone who has achieved nirvana would be too sublime for the rest of us to comprehend.

On a side note, the word "nirvana" always calls to mind "Weird" Al Yankowic's immortal words...

quote:
No we don't sell like Madonna
Here we are now, we're Nirvana
Sing distinctly? We don't wanna
Buy our album, we're Nirvana

[The-Moon]

quote:Originally posted by mickel:
<STRONG>Nirvana means different things depending on the religion, but generally speaking it's a state of complete happiness you achieve when you have rid yourself of all cravings and instincts, and therefore suffering. You are then released from the karmic bondage (and worldly existence).

Simply "being in the zone" isn't even close.

I would imagine art made by someone who has achieved nirvana would be too sublime for the rest of us to comprehend.

On a side note, the word "nirvana" always calls to mind "Weird" Al Yankowic's immortal words...
</STRONG>

To tell you the truth i just looked up the words instinct and intuition. II'm not using my instincts, but more my intuition. IE knowing something without knowing it type thing.

I have been addicted to tobacco for years now as well as alcohol and since i've been able to hold this state i'm starting to lose those addictions.

[Awayfarer]

Think of this gameplay-wise. What you're suggesting is essentially to penalize folks that keeps their dwarves happy. Personally I don't like the idea of having to frequently tweak dwarves happiness due to a penalty in either direction.

[Neonivek]

Does this topic make ANYONE here kinda feel like playing that game Afterlife?

The game where you have to make everyone in heaven happy... and everyone in hell unhappy? It kinda got interesting since Long winding roads were perfect for hell.

[Mikademus]

As for terminology, you're side-tracked. Though the OP did use the word "Nirvana", it is clear that his intention was an opposing state to the "abject misery" end station of the tauntrum spiral rather than to make a discursive assertation about Buddhist-philiosophical nomenclature:

 

quote:Originally posted by Deon:
<STRONG>I suggest to have an opposite to tantrum status for dwarven behaviour.

Imagine that the dwarf's happiness is beyond some very high value (like 500). This dwarf will have a high chance to throw a happy tantrum - fall in nirvana. In "nirvana" state dwarves hesistate to fight/work until the feeling passes and will talk to near dwarves, upping their happiness.
This will make a lot of fun situations like "nirvana spiral" instead of "tantrum spiral" and also I think that it will add some nice challenge, you'll need to have more ways to lower dwarven morale though (like public executions) and maybe you'll need to limit some of the most ecstatic ones in drinking alcohol or lock their bedrooms for them to sleep on the street.
Also before implementing this I suggest to lower the dining room effect.
</STRONG>

I still support the suggestion, and think it would blend well with existing and coming game play factors, such as fey moods and religion.

[ May 28, 2008: Message edited by: Mikademus ]

[Sean Mirrsen]

A state of nirvana would then be "falling out of the world" mentally. The dwarf in question is so happy he suddenly flips to walking around and doing nothing, enjoying the experience. The state is a "mental lock" and the dwarf would be completely ignorant of his surroundings until he is forced out of it. No deaths of pets or relatives, no morbid sights throughout the halls or status changes would affect him in the state. Hunger and thirst would probably factor in, briefly taking the dwarf out of the state to get nutrition, but the happy thought from the food would switch him back.
Since a state of "complete and utter happiness" is, naturally, very enjoyable, no one would willingly leave it, and would like to return once taken out of it. (Anyone watched the Star Trek movie "Generations"? That sort of thing.)
The state isn't "contagious", as in an ultrahappy dwarf won't radiate happiness or something, but since "happiness" usually happens on the overall, rather than individual scale, then one dwarf flipping should be a sign to the player that something's not right - or, rather, too right. Things like getting ultra-great drinks and foods in a personal legendary dining room could cause it, just as weed would if it were implemented.
There's a bigger danger to this "nirvana". Once taken out of it, forcibly, the dwarf gets a negative thought that prevents him from quickly re-entering. However, if a dwarf that's been in the state gets too much of a mood drop (which depends on what he sees after he's out of the non-interactive state - which in turn depends on what measures you resorted to beforehand), he can become miserable. Or berserk.

I suppose it could be fun. Economic simulation games like Stronghold (I think) actually suggest that the player be at least somewhat strict to his followers, to instill fear and whatnot, preventing possible unwanted behavior. Granted, those games usually have a certain tangible leader figure that represents the player, but I suppose this interpretation of the principle can be fun to play with in DF.

[Bricktop]

Sp we are suggesting that players should be penalized for doing well? Thats an idiotic idea. Really.

The basic result of this would be that you would have to purposely mess things up in your fortress and consciously make mistakes just to avoid having yuor fortress destroyed by skilled game play. Can anyone actually suggest anything that this situation would add to the game?

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Bricktop:
<STRONG>Sp we are suggesting that players should be penalized for doing well? Thats an idiotic idea. Really.</STRONG>

I think we're suggesting a more complex and somewhat quirky psychology to the dwarves. And from a sociological perspective. what is beneficial for one individual may well be detrimental to society.

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Mikademus:
<STRONG>And from a sociological perspective. what is beneficial for one individual may well be detrimental to society.</STRONG>

Indeed. If the dwarves got to choose themselves, they'd live in the booze stocks and sit there all day, drinking, having parties, and chafing on their precious rocks. Good for them, but nothing would get done.

[Deon]

Wow, this thread has got some nice ideas.

1) Sorry for the wrong terminology for those who like "clear terms", I definitely didn't mean the buddhist nirvana state. I spoke more of a "bliss" state.

2) It was just a single idea about making them unable to work when they're at this state. I threw it in to see your respones.
Definitely I'd like to see some complex state here depending on the use of the currently somewhat unimplemented dwarven personality: if the dwarf is organized he has more chances to get "working desire" and to work faster and with more quality while some lazy dwarves will more likely to become worthless in this state ("My life is perfect! What, work?! I'd better eat my cat barbeque in my legendary dining room, go to hell you nobles! My life is too cool to spend it on working! What, hammerer at my door? Ehr...")

[ May 28, 2008: Message edited by: Deon ]

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Neonivek:
<STRONG>Does this topic make ANYONE here kinda feel like playing that game Afterlife?

The game where you have to make everyone in heaven happy... and everyone in hell unhappy? It kinda got interesting since Long winding roads were perfect for hell.</STRONG>

I loved that game. What happened to it?