Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Vacuum Breakers  (Read 2527 times)

firecrystal

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NOT_BUTCHERATER]
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2008, 06:37:00 pm »

If we just need that, how about one of these?

Side View:

code:

~~~~~~~~^X
---------|~~~~~~~~~~~
        |-----------

Top View:

code:

Z
-----------
~~~~~~~~^X.|
-----------

Z-1
          ----------
         |~~~~~~~~~~
          ----------


X = Floodgate

^ = Pressure Plate set to 2/7 or whatever you need.

- or | = Wall

[ January 28, 2008: Message edited by: firecrystal ]

Logged
Firecrystal cancels Engrave Signature: Interrupted by cliche.
I'm fond of the time the whole inside of the world melted and fell into the center of the world.

firecrystal

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NOT_BUTCHERATER]
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2008, 06:39:00 pm »

[ January 28, 2008: Message edited by: firecrystal ]

Logged
Firecrystal cancels Engrave Signature: Interrupted by cliche.
I'm fond of the time the whole inside of the world melted and fell into the center of the world.

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2008, 06:51:00 pm »

It would actually be a lot like a dynamic floodgate. Imagine a floodgate linked to a waterwheel. The waterwheel supplies power to the floodgate, keeping it open. If the flow direction changes, the waterwheel reverses power supply, force-shutting the floodgate.

I think in the future (of DF) all the levers and systems will be better off working this way.
A gearbox would have an ability to switch itself on and off (clutch), or provide power directly, or in reverse. They might be two different gearboxes, if that concept is difficult. Any item that moves will require a mechanical power supply to function - and will function without a lever, as long as the power is supplied. The direction of the said power (CW or CCW, specifically listed on the mechanical components) will determine how the item operates - raising or lowering a drawbridge, opening/closing floodgates, doors, hatches, bars, etc. A lever will be linked to a reversing gearbox that will shift the gear into the reverse of the active, thus toggling the operation of the item.
Applied to windmills, the less reliable supply, the system will be simpler - as the 'mills can be set to specifically produce CW or CCW power, and produce it constantly regardless of wind direction. Waterwheels, as noted, produce power dependant on the orientation of the flow, and orientation of the connecting axle. While more cumbersome in some situations, the waterwheels will thus allow such dynamic self-controlling floodgates.

Way to make a long winded post to explain a complex principle used to fulfill a simple need.  :)
I seek no easy route.  ;)

Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Armok

  • Bay Watcher
  • God of Blood
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2008, 11:26:00 am »

Seconded.
Logged
So says Armok, God of blood.
Sszsszssoo...
Sszsszssaaayysss...
III...

YolkFolk

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2008, 01:41:00 pm »

Won't a continuously pumping pump set slightly above your channel work this way?

code:

Side view

OOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOO %% OOO
~~~~~~OO~~~~
OOOOOOOOOOOO

%% pump pumping from Left to Right
~  water
OO rock


Power the pump however you like, but if you leave it running all the time, it will carry the water over the hump. Water cannot flow backwards through the running pump.

If you made a small passage laterally around the hump and added a floodgate there, you could toggle it at the same time as deactivating the pump to allow blackflow.

[ January 31, 2008: Message edited by: YolkFolk ]

Logged

Bullion

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2008, 01:44:00 pm »

there are billions of pre 1800 examples, in the arteries there are valves which work just like a vacuum breaker
Logged
Bullion cancels witty informative post: Interrupted by Logic

Draco18s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2008, 11:56:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Bullion:
<STRONG>there are billions of pre 1800 examples, in the arteries there are valves which work just like a vacuum breaker</STRONG>

Congrats!
Now find a man-made example.

Logged

Momaw

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2008, 01:36:00 am »

I'd just like to point out that not all pumps need valves to work. Don't limit your thinking to reciprocal compression pumps, there are also several flavors of ROTARY pumps.
Logged

makar

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 05:19:00 am »

A man mad example?

The various sluises (sp?) used in the Netherlands that had as function to get rid of water at low tide, and keep the high tide (or waterlevels in rivers) out.

This one, on a river, first was built in 1300. And it isn't the oldest one in the netherlands
Weerdsluis, Utrecht

Its would be "custom built" for channels.

Logged

Align

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2008, 02:16:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>

Congrats!
Now find a man-made example.</STRONG>



He has a point though. People probably didn't have much opportunity to pump water back then, but it's not hard to figure out a way to make a one-way flap. I'm sure the dwarves, what with having powered pumps and sometimes having to drain rooms, would have the necessary experience.

[ February 01, 2008: Message edited by: Align ]

Logged
My stray dogs often chase fire imps back into the magma pipe and then continue fighting while burning and drowning in the lava. Truly their loyalty knows no bounds, but perhaps it should.

Align

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 02:16:00 pm »

double post

[ February 01, 2008: Message edited by: Align ]

Logged
My stray dogs often chase fire imps back into the magma pipe and then continue fighting while burning and drowning in the lava. Truly their loyalty knows no bounds, but perhaps it should.

Alfador

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dangerous Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2008, 02:21:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:
<STRONG>I'd just like to point out that not all pumps need valves to work. Don't limit your thinking to reciprocal compression pumps, there are also several flavors of ROTARY pumps.</STRONG>

Yes, I recall reading about a pump that had no moving parts directly touching the fluid, used in medicine to pump blood that might have cells damaged by pump parts. It rotated and squeezed a tube.

Logged
This is a fox skull helmet. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of fox bone and is encircled with bands of fox leather. This item is haunted by the ghost of Alfador Angrorung the fox.

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2008, 03:22:00 pm »

I think the screw pump is one example of a rotary pump. Another is distinctly more high-speed, the centrifugal pump. One more type is the rope/chain pump that would be a great aid in pumping water up several levels.
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Draco18s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2008, 05:07:00 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_pump

Chain pump has a longer article, but works in much the same fassion.

Logged

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Vacuum Breakers
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2008, 05:31:00 pm »

Yes, I think once it is possible to extend buildings through several Z levels, we will see chain/rope (since chains and ropes are two names for the same thing in DF) pump going up a cliffside to deliver water from a brook down below.
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India
Pages: 1 [2]