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Author Topic: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.  (Read 2392 times)

Evil One

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2009, 07:50:00 am »

On the note of Molten anything, Greater Demons can't be roasted, drowned, dropped or trapped so what kind of defences are you planning?
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Dwarf!  Indeed, a devious delight fond of drink and industry deceived as both do-gooder and devil by the delusions of deities.  This demander, no daft demeanor, is a driving force of the deadly diocese, now disappointed, delirious from goblin deception.  However, this delicious derangement of a demolished diamond stands determined!

Vester

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2009, 08:07:29 am »

One of the usual features of my forts is a single main entrance, heavily lined with weapon or stonefall traps, so if the sieges are as nasty as they look to be, I'll be retaining that. If I've embarked on a plain, I'm going to have marksdwarves on the second z-level overlooking the entrance via fortifications. If I'm on a mountain face, it'll have to be that single sealed entrance with marksdwarves on the inside. Hoping I can overwhelm that damblock with sheer volume.

Speaking of which, how does it do against siege weapons? I don't think I'm going to use them, but three ballistae pointed down my entrance hall could probably achieve the same effect.
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Evil One

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2009, 08:54:13 am »

I think the massed Marksdwarves is probably the best idea as all Greater Demons start with legendary wrestling skill for some reason this means that they can dodge the slower firing ballistae, remember they have both firebreath and dragon firebreath as well so they might be able to kill the dwarves manning(dwarving?) the ballistae(I'm not sure if these attacks can go through ballistae). The stonefall and weapon traps should stop the goblins but Greater Demons have the [trAPAVOID] tag... I wonder if I made them too tough?

EDIT - I forgot to add that GD's have a speed of 650 so they are VERY fast.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 08:56:00 am by Evil One »
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Dwarf!  Indeed, a devious delight fond of drink and industry deceived as both do-gooder and devil by the delusions of deities.  This demander, no daft demeanor, is a driving force of the deadly diocese, now disappointed, delirious from goblin deception.  However, this delicious derangement of a demolished diamond stands determined!

Martin

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2009, 11:54:42 am »

On the note of Molten anything, Greater Demons can't be roasted, drowned, dropped or trapped so what kind of defences are you planning?

Upright spike traps and marksdwarves.

Size 20, damblock 10? Lead it through a windy maze to negate the ranged attacks and Morul or the Nist guards would kill it easily. Morul is charging through size 25/damblock 25 orcs now, and the Nist guards are quite a bit deadlier.

And yes, ranged fire attacks can go through ballistae.

I don't think it's too tough. I mean, it's not easy, but it seems pretty straighforward to keep one out of your fort and there are several ways to kill it, two of which require no really skills. Lure it into an area where you can cut off paths with bridges, trapping it and put marksdwarves one z-level up where the fire attacks can't reach. Then let them fire away. Eventually they'll get a crit. Might take a season. For a fallback, line the trapping area with upright spike traps on a lever.

Once you train up some wicked soldier, just send him instead.

Megabeasts shouldn't be easy, after all - you just need to plan accordingly.

Evil One

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2009, 12:34:25 pm »

On the note of Molten anything, Greater Demons can't be roasted, drowned, dropped or trapped so what kind of defences are you planning?

Upright spike traps and marksdwarves.

Size 20, damblock 10? Lead it through a windy maze to negate the ranged attacks and Morul or the Nist guards would kill it easily. Morul is charging through size 25/damblock 25 orcs now, and the Nist guards are quite a bit deadlier.

And yes, ranged fire attacks can go through ballistae.

I don't think it's too tough. I mean, it's not easy, but it seems pretty straighforward to keep one out of your fort and there are several ways to kill it, two of which require no really skills. Lure it into an area where you can cut off paths with bridges, trapping it and put marksdwarves one z-level up where the fire attacks can't reach. Then let them fire away. Eventually they'll get a crit. Might take a season. For a fallback, line the trapping area with upright spike traps on a lever.

Once you train up some wicked soldier, just send him instead.

Megabeasts shouldn't be easy, after all - you just need to plan accordingly.

Size 20 Damblock 10 and VERY good at dodging attacks, you can't cut off it's paths without cutting off all Lines of Sight because Greater Demons can fly and avoid traps, and these things have a lot of different attacks including a piercing tail stinger that causes paralysis so close combat is not wise also they have the webber ability so getting close enough to fight it can be difficult. To date I've lost two fortresses to GDs even though I killed off the goblins the GD managed to tear apart my axedwarves and kept dodging my marksdwarves shots.
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Dwarf!  Indeed, a devious delight fond of drink and industry deceived as both do-gooder and devil by the delusions of deities.  This demander, no daft demeanor, is a driving force of the deadly diocese, now disappointed, delirious from goblin deception.  However, this delicious derangement of a demolished diamond stands determined!

PencilinHand

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2009, 01:33:41 pm »

Size 20 Damblock 10 and VERY good at dodging attacks, you can't cut off it's paths without cutting off all Lines of Sight because Greater Demons can fly and avoid traps, and these things have a lot of different attacks including a piercing tail stinger that causes paralysis so close combat is not wise also they have the webber ability so getting close enough to fight it can be difficult. To date I've lost two fortresses to GDs even though I killed off the goblins the GD managed to tear apart my axedwarves and kept dodging my marksdwarves shots.

The way that flying units work right now is if a flying creature can not ground path to it then it can not fly to it.  It is a consequence of the current pathing implementation and is going to be changed eventually.

Upright spike traps don't count as "traps" because they are not self activated like weapon and stone-fall traps so [trAPAVOID] does nothing to them.

Any one z-level high enclosed path that is sufficiently long and lined with upright spike traps attached to a lever or pressure plate should land a few hits on anything.  It is still possible to dodge the spikes, but everything will have to run the gauntlet if that is the only(or shortest) unsealed entrance. 

All that is needed then is to seal the enclosed path in some way(retractable bridges will accomplish this, see previous explanation on flying creatures), thus trapping what lies within and you have your very own hall of impaling.  It might take a lifetime of dwarf nobles pulling levers to kill what lies within but it will die eventually.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 01:40:32 pm by PencilinHand »
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Evil One

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2009, 03:21:48 pm »

Weird... In the first fortress I lost to the GDs I tried to trap them on an island(with a 5 z-level drop all around it) by raising the bridges at both ends to stop it but it just flew right over the drop and proceeded to obliterate my military and then the rest of my population.
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Dwarf!  Indeed, a devious delight fond of drink and industry deceived as both do-gooder and devil by the delusions of deities.  This demander, no daft demeanor, is a driving force of the deadly diocese, now disappointed, delirious from goblin deception.  However, this delicious derangement of a demolished diamond stands determined!

Martin

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2009, 03:47:34 pm »

What you need to do is make an island with a roof - just one z-level high. On the sides, cut 2-wide chasms and bridge them with drawbridges that raise away from the island forming a wall on the far side. So long as the thing is fully roofed, there's no place for it to go with the drawbridges up. Not until the game allows building destroyers to kill drawbridges, and then to allow them to do it in flight will the GD be able to escape.

On the sides raise the roof up 1 z-level over the chasm (make sure there are walls to seal the space) and have fortifications over the raised drawbridges. That should allow marksdwarves to shoot down to the island maybe 3-4 tiles in under the lower roof, but ranged fire attacks don't cross z-levels, so they should be quite safe. Completely cover the island in upright spike traps attached to a lever. Even if it can dodge the trap under it, it'll only land on another.

It'll die.

Enatai

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2009, 07:23:47 pm »

Give him extremely high speed and more varied attacks, especially in terms of attack types.  I mean, I'm already changing my pants at the thought of putting him in, but if I notice that suddenly his attacks immolate my fortress and one of his punches can tear the face off of my champion swordsman, not to mention the fact that there will be no stuck-ins and he's got [DAMBLOCK:EIGHTY JILLION], I'm going to be wearing adult diapers soon.

To add in a little more fun, give him an entity and allow him to have the most destructive ethics ever so everyone will try (and fail, hopefully) to kill him, then give him [BABYSNATCHER] just to piss everyone off.  Awesome.

If you don't mind, I'm going to do just those things, rename him Maddox, give him weapons skills and [MALE], and have him be [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE].  Awesome.
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Vester

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2009, 10:00:10 pm »

Oi, I just thought of an entire civ composed of goblins and babysnatched elves, humans, and dwarfs, under the rule of a GD. Holy wow, can you say Morgoth?
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Evil One

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2009, 06:08:34 am »

I think GD already have most attack types - GORE (from horns), PIERCE (from tenticle claws and tail stinger), BLUDGEON (From tenticle slap and feet), SLASH (from clawed hands) and lastly BURN (from bite attack)... They already have a speed of 650 and I've just discovered (much to my horror) that the nasty bug that affects undead imps also affects GDs... THEY CAN SOMETIMES WALK THROUGH GRATES AND FORTIFICATIONS!!!
The tenticle claws can latch on to an opponent and drain their blood and the tail stinger carries a particularly deadly poison, they can web opponents and throw fireballs as well as breathe dragonfire. So far I've only managed to kill one once and that was with a large party of highly trained adventurers who all died shortly afterwards (my adventurer was mortally wounded in the battle and the rest were ripped limb from limb).
I don't think I'll make it a [(BABYSNATCHER)] Though GDs are Demons of destruction and chaos, now if they had a [BABYEATER] tag I'd happily add it.
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Dwarf!  Indeed, a devious delight fond of drink and industry deceived as both do-gooder and devil by the delusions of deities.  This demander, no daft demeanor, is a driving force of the deadly diocese, now disappointed, delirious from goblin deception.  However, this delicious derangement of a demolished diamond stands determined!

PencilinHand

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Re: Making the worlds most badass megabeast.
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2009, 01:42:36 pm »

Weird... In the first fortress I lost to the GDs I tried to trap them on an island(with a 5 z-level drop all around it) by raising the bridges at both ends to stop it but it just flew right over the drop and proceeded to obliterate my military and then the rest of my population.

I am not sure why that happened in your case but I do know that flying is a little weird currently.  I have seen a Giant bat fly through half my fortress past/over 3 wardogs and a half-dozen dwarfs before it reached its target and "was spotted."

It may have already been flying/pathing to a specific target beyond your "island" and was then unaffected.  Maybe some sacrificial bait is needed so it has to repath out/away and hence can not because it is an island.
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