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[LegoLord]

In the 2D version, tower caps and bushes were green when they sprouted.  However, if water flowed over them again, they would be muddy again.

[LegacyCWAL]

Not to mention how it's impossible to tell muddy shrubs from dead shrubs without designating them for gathering.

[Ampersand]

It looks like the ground doesn't necessarily have to be muddied for a tower cap or shrub to grow. In my last fortress, I had muddied out a large tower cap farm area, and later decided to expand it. While my miners were digging out the expansion, tower caps started sprouting from the newly exposed ground up to four or five tiles away from the nearest muddied tile. Is there some sort of moisture value that tiles gain when water flows nearby?

If so, maybe instead of dropping mud from trees, which seems a bit strange to me, maybe just a way to moisten the soil without muddying it?

[LegoLord]

If so, maybe instead of dropping mud from trees, which seems a bit strange to me, maybe just a way to moisten the soil without muddying it?

That would be far more complicated.

[Ampersand]

Maybe, maybe not. Could be little more than an irrigate area designation.

[Tack]

yeah... i wish that tower caps would grow in any underground muddy tile though, i hate having to get a map with an underground river, just to get siege wood.

[Granite26]

yeah... i wish that tower caps would grow in any underground muddy tile though, i hate having to get a map with an underground river, just to get siege wood.

Think about that though...  It's hard and takes work to get a powerful advantage?

[G-Flex]

Also, dwarves can't be good at EVERYTHING.

If there's one thing it should take a hell of a lot of work to get as a dwarf, it's plant material. Underground wood (and even crops) should be far less efficient, in my opinion. You don't want to run into that typical "everybody can do everything equally well, even if it doesn't make much sense" RPG problem.

[Silverionmox]

For now, I consider dwarves the testing race. In the final vanilla version they shouldn't have such a wide array of farming abilities. Plants and derived products are more elvish, livestock and derived products are more human.

[Pilsu]

I don't see why dwarves couldn't be the best at everything. It's refreshing to have a dominant race that isn't humans. Ruling everything regardless of inferiority because of some bullshit personality traits like "being determined" is a Mary Sue trait if I ever saw one. I think dwarven keeps should be far more widespread, currently they tend to be stuck in one general mountain region. Being afraid of a little evil isn't helping

[G-Flex]

How is being the best at everything despite obvious natural disadvantages NOT mary-sueish?

They're dwarves; they keep to the underground. They can't even leave the underground without getting sick half the time, and ideally they don't know how to work wood and plant life as much as elves or probably even humans. They should be worse at things like farming, because they haven't as much skill in that field, and farming things underground would be ridiculously hard in the first place; they'd have to put all their expertise and effort into simply being able to grow and harvest enough dinky cave mushrooms to survive.

There's no real reason why any race should be "dominant". They all have their own advantages and disadvantages already, and those will only become more prominent as the game continues being developed.

[Pilsu]

I can see dwarves walking somewhat slower than humies but beyond that I don't think they'd need additional penalties. They already get a damage penalty and their dam block is only there to counter the extra damage smaller creatures take

If they couldn't farm effectively underground, they wouldn't live there


I could see stuff like never being able to be a legendary craftsman with organic products whereas humans and elves could and expertise in said fields would be reflected in the quality of goods available in trade but nothing to really elevate humans to be the best race in the game yet again

[Footkerchief]

If they couldn't farm effectively underground, they wouldn't live there

Not to imply that Tolkien is the canonical basis for DF or anything, but IIRC the dwarves of Moria traded their crafts for food produced by nearby peoples.

[Pilsu]

I doubt Moria had underground farms of any kind. This game however does

[Silverionmox]

I don't see why dwarves couldn't be the best at everything. It's refreshing to have a dominant race that isn't humans. Ruling everything regardless of inferiority because of some bullshit personality traits like "being determined" is a Mary Sue trait if I ever saw one. I think dwarven keeps should be far more widespread, currently they tend to be stuck in one general mountain region. Being afraid of a little evil isn't helping

Living underground is not really conductive to build up skill with plantlife. Add in cave adaptation.. while elves enjoy hanging around in the sun between the plants outside - they'll let the elves grow their unruly plants, while the dwarves can concentrate on trusted stone and metal. Humans needn't be as good in metalworking and stoneworking as dwarves. Their forte could be their mobility, so they might be more akin to nomadic horsemen or such.

I would separate the physical/intellectual ability and the culture, however. Just having various races instead of various cultures would be a missed chance. Occasionally, there could be a tribe of tree-hugging dwarves or industrious humans.