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[Deon]

Hello to comrade, Flying mage. I'm from russia too, so a bit of pfftopic: join to russian df wiki community =).

For now I love ascii graphics and I fully understand that we should wait to get the main part of the game (all these arcs), and the interface is the thing that had made me O_O when I had seen it for the first time, but later I got used to it and now I don't even notice the difficulty of the interface - i just press a lot of buttons in the order.
You'll get used to it too, and I feel sorry for your friends who're addicted too because of you: they've lost a lot of time of their precious time, and they will loose MUCH more, because this game is really addicting, impressive and awesome.
And all we want these custom big tiles to paint our own world (I like the thing that we can make units look as we want them to, I hope it won't be changed).

[ March 23, 2008: Message edited by: Deon ]

[Flying Mage]

quote:but later I got used to it and now I don't even notice the difficulty of the interface

You got used to it because the game is great. Don't you? But you must agree it can be much, much and much better. With one-click access to anywhere, lots of statistics and interactive monitoring, and of course total control (well not total, after all dwarfs is alive, but full enough to feel the fortress as your own). Like this prog - Dwarf Foreman - or something like this, MUST be integrated into game. And all of aspects of the game must be the same - comfortable and easy controlable.
I like to play with mouse only (and a cup of tea in other hand) so maybe this is the reason I don't like this interface. You see <d>menu have а mouse and it is a lot more comfortable than all others. So why any else menus don't have it I don't quite understand...

[Deon]

Because the Toady doesn't want to add this before this game gains something he thinks is most important.
And there's noone else who can make it. Can YOU make it? Sad, you can't. As long as others.

Also this kind of game distracts you from having "a cup of tea in other hand", which can help some of us to lose some bad habits.

[Forumsdwarf]

Certain quirks of the interface sometimes force massive amounts of unnecessary work to accomplish simple tasks, and getting critical information can sometimes be a huge pain.  The ad-hoc, incremental nature of the UI design also forces certain strange and apparently unintended consequences, like your not being allowed to assign war dogs to soldiers once they become Champions.

That, for me, is the only thing "wrong" with Dwarf Fortress.  I'm so familiar with the graphics I can easily tell the difference between a pump, an orthoclase deposit, and a barrel; a gear from a gem from a gem deposit from a turtle, etc.  The graphics are so intuitively chosen that even several meanings for the same symbol don't confuse.  DF's ASCII graphics seem as natural to me as looking out a window.

Then the caravan comes and I want to sell all non-bloodstained plant fiber clothing worth less than $100 and 3 hours later feel the strong urge to shoot something.

[Reasonableman]

So, to put this to rest, once and for a while:

The two developers of this game (herein referred to as "Toady" and "Threetoe",) being the sole developers with all rights, and the desire to hold on to said rights, to this game (herein referred to as DWARF FORTRESS!!!,) shall not, until such time as it is more feasible, commence work on the interface portion of the game. The reasons for such lack of progress are as follows:

1: A keen desire on the part of Toady and/or Threetoe to retain all bragging rights and/or credit for the entirety of the game.
2: The fact that ASCII graphics and a cumbersome, unintuitive interface are easy to work with (insofar as the developer is concerned) and change at a moment's notice on account of the ever-changing nature of DWARF FORTRESS!!!
3: ASCII graphics and the complicated controls attract, in a bizarre and unprecedented fashion, a dedicated and extremely productive fanbase, whilst keeping out people of a less helpful sort (herein referred to as "13 year old kids who play Halo all day to the exclusion of all other games".)

SO IT IS WRITTEN. SO IT SHALL BE. OR NOT. 'CAUSE I AM NOT INFALLIBLE, UNLIKE THE MIGHTY TOADY ONE AND HIS BROTHER, THE EQUALLY INFALLIBLE (AND MIGHTY) THREETOE.

[ March 25, 2008: Message edited by: Reasonableman ]

[Hyperturtle]

I remember many  years ago, I got paid $50 to do a market research thing for Nintendo, Sega, and Sony maybe?  It was around the time the N64 was out.

I was the *only* one there that thought gameplay was important.  Everyone else couldn't imagine playing a game without good graphics, or even playing a game more than once after winning it, unless to show the graphics to a friend.

The researchers provided free snacks and cola, at least.  And $50.

[numerobis]

quote:Originally posted by Forumsdwarf:
<STRONG>Then the caravan comes and I want to sell all non-bloodstained plant fiber clothing worth less than $100 and 3 hours later feel the strong urge to shoot something.</STRONG>

Luckily, then the goblins come and you *do* get to shoot something.  Oh, but that replenishes your supply of useless clothing.

Your post eloquently summarizes my feelings about the UI.  Looking forward to the promised UI overhaul...

[numerobis]

quote:Originally posted by Reasonableman:
<STRONG>'CAUSE I AM NOT INFALLIBLE, UNLIKE THE MIGHTY TOADY ONE AND HIS BROTHER, THE EQUALLY INFALLIBLE (AND MIGHTY) THREETOE.</STRONG>

Luckily, they (or at least Toady; does ThreeToe wander the forums?) are quite accepting of their fallibility and fix things quickly that are quick to fix.

[Forumsdwarf]

Gameplay is to games what story is to movies.

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Willfor:
<STRONG>which is why he will likely be working on the presentation of the game once army arc is finished.</STRONG>

This seems unlikely... he said that would mostly be a last resort.

     

quote:Originally posted by Willfor:
<STRONG>Personally, I just hope some support for ASCII remains afterwords, because that is my preferred graphics, but I wouldn't disagree to having a few improvements to the interface.</STRONG>

¿?

Had you bothered to read the development page, you would know that ASCII support is unharmed by the Presentation Arc. The fearmongering some forumers spread about this subject is really irritating in its persistence.

[ March 26, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Mlittle]

my personal views on why doesn't Toady to this instead of that, or why he doesn't do it in a "better" way are...

We all have our own ways of doing things, it's just some are closer to normal and some are further off. So no one should take Toads little eccentricites as snobism, it's just how he works best. Also Toady has stated somewhere that managing a team that would work on DF is more than he could handle. So I'd say he is a brilliant game designer/coder, but a crappy team player. He is only human after all and can't be good at everything.

Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

-edit-
Also Slaves to Armok: Good of Blood 1, died under the burden of too much graphics over an unfinished game.

[ March 26, 2008: Message edited by: Mlittle ]