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[Tadpole1]

Hello everyone, Toady, ThreeToe and beloved Dwarf Fortress Community.

Mike Driftwood and I were discussing on the DF facebook group how complicated the actual religion mechanic was in the current version of DF,
although we understand dwarf polytheism we felt bothered that the game forced us to assign a bunch of temples to make our dorfs happy so I came up with this new mechanic to improve it and make it more !FUN!

Answer to Mike Driftwood Copy\pasted from Andris Birkmani's post in the DF facebook group December 21, 2022:

"  they could even improve it ! By allowing dwarves to be prozelythists and try to convert their fellow dorfs this can create a new tension (full scale civil religion war) and a new Mechanic to worry about in the fort,

even better, the game should allow us to create our own god and religion for them using procedural gen in the same way we can use it in the game today to rename taverns and other places, so we can have them adopt the habits of said new God (devout, lust, cannibalistic or warmonger?etc), I ALWAYS DREAMED OF HAVING AMROK IN MY GAME

 that would be sick, problem is I lost the link where we're supposed to tell them about bug fixes and things to be included in the next patch, I would gladly recommend it or maybe send an email ? May the best God win "

https://www.facebook.com/groups/308623225873095/posts/5711641438904553/?comment_id=5712817555453608&reply_comment_id=5717878634947500&notif_id=1671638244400650&notif_t=group_comment_mention


I am humbly submitting this suggestion to you and would be honored if it were included in a future patch.

I will talke this opportunity to thank ToadyOne and ThreeToe for bringing Dwarf Fortress into my life. Thank you for bearing with me until now and may the best god win ! 

Tadpole1



 

[Putnam]

They already can proselytize, somewhat, actually, and in fact that's where all the specific sects that need temples come from in the first place.

[Tadpole1]

Hello Putnam ! I am very happy you entered the DF team, and its awesome speaking with you on this thread.

On this matter I think it might be worth saying that the mechanic falls flat as it doesn't really seem to have much purpose. Doesn't seem to cause any real world conflicts or consequences. Being able to create our own seems like an oversight too.

Any thoughts on possible future implementations ? would a similar mechanic ever make its way into Dwarf Fortress  or would the change be too drastic maybe ?

Tadpole1

[Shonai_Dweller]

Hello Putnam ! I am very happy you entered the DF team, and its awesome speaking with you on this thread.

On this matter I think it might be worth saying that the mechanic falls flat as it doesn't really seem to have much purpose. Doesn't seem to cause any real world conflicts or consequences. Being able to create our own seems like an oversight too.

Any thoughts on possible future implementations ? would a similar mechanic ever make its way into Dwarf Fortress  or would the change be too drastic maybe ?

Tadpole1

Fortress factions and in-fighting has been mentioned a lot by Toady. Villains with its coup d'etat will be an initial look at that. Religions are an obvious candidate.

In the outside world, religion has a lot of effects.

Religious persecution leads to grudges, leads to murder and betrayal right now in the game. You'd have to look carefully to spot it going on in your own fortress of course, but the outside world is affected by religion. If you see someone with "pure hatred" towards someone else in their relationships screen, that was likely the cause.

Lack of religion seems to upset neighbouring civs too. It's all they talk about in some towns when you go to visit. So it's another factor like ethics that can lead to war.

Starting Scenarios arc (next large arc after Myth & Magic) would likely be where you found a new religious order.

[jipehog]

how complicated the actual religion mechanic was in the current version of DF, although we understand dwarf polytheism we felt bothered that the game forced us to assign a bunch of temples to make our dorfs happy

You don't need to build a bunch of temples, you can easily play with a single non deity-specific temple, the temple spam is more of min/max approach aligned with endeavor to create a dwarf utopia. We also do a lot of unnecessarily complicated things for gameplay purpose

By allowing dwarves to be prozelythists and try to convert their fellow dorfs this can create a new tension (full scale civil religion war) and a new Mechanic to worry about in the fort

I would love for an endorse/convert mechanic that would actually sway people, allowing to create an henotheistic setting where I have a grand temple for my chosen deity and something for everyone else in some tavern backroom.

What sort tensions/drawbacks you had in mind?

the game should allow us to create our own god and religion for them using procedural gen in the same way we can use it in the game today to rename taverns and other places

I am not sure about that. Any god would have to be created during world gen.

[jipehog]

Religious persecution leads to grudges, leads to murder and betrayal right now in the game. You'd have to look carefully to spot it going on in your own fortress of course, but the outside world is affected by religion. If you see someone with "pure hatred" towards someone else in their relationships screen, that was likely the cause.

How does 'religious persecution' manifest in game?

Lack of religion seems to upset neighbouring civs too. It's all they talk about in some towns when you go to visit. So it's another factor like ethics that can lead to war.

'Lack of religion' ?

[brewer bob]

Religious persecution leads to grudges, leads to murder and betrayal right now in the game. You'd have to look carefully to spot it going on in your own fortress of course, but the outside world is affected by religion. If you see someone with "pure hatred" towards someone else in their relationships screen, that was likely the cause.

How does 'religious persecution' manifest in game?

At least during world gen it is a quite common thing. (Edit. e.g. sacred sites get destroyed)

[Shonai_Dweller]

Religious persecution leads to grudges, leads to murder and betrayal right now in the game. You'd have to look carefully to spot it going on in your own fortress of course, but the outside world is affected by religion. If you see someone with "pure hatred" towards someone else in their relationships screen, that was likely the cause.

How does 'religious persecution' manifest in game?

Lack of religion seems to upset neighbouring civs too. It's all they talk about in some towns when you go to visit. So it's another factor like ethics that can lead to war.

'Lack of religion' ?

Yes, if an entity has no religion, when you talk to a neighboring civ they complain about it and say "something must be done!". Not all entities have religions.

[jipehog]

So just lack of religion, not different aspect of it? If we are talking about the [RELIGION:] tag in raws, if so only Dwarves and Humans have it, then essentially we currently have religion racial wars.

At least during world gen it is a quite common thing. (Edit. e.g. sacred sites get destroyed)

I remember those, was wondering if it also manifested in anyway in fortress simulation and its possible role in forming grudges.

[Resmisal]

If I understand correctly, you're interested in custom made mythological and historical figures? Now that you mention it, it would be a cool idea! I'm looking forward to an update that gives generated deities more than necromancers.