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[Pancakes]

Yeah, I didn't really have any expectations and it made the whole experience fantastic. There are a few parts that are stuck in my head now, ha, and I guess it did it's job in that regard.

I know from experience that just because you like something, not everyone does, especially when it comes to games centered around world-building and character driven plots, instead of gameplay. Stuff like that is really subjective.

[Derpy Dev]

It finally happened.

I think this just goes to show that any indie game fandom that gets sufficiently popular blends with Undertale. I dare you to find an exception.

[JimboM12]

I think this just goes to show that any indie game fandom that gets sufficiently popular blends with Undertale. I dare you to find an exception.

i think the obvious answer is we need to blend dwarf fortress with undertale.

[Derpy Dev]

I think this just goes to show that any indie game fandom that gets sufficiently popular blends with Undertale. I dare you to find an exception.

i think the obvious answer is we need to blend dwarf fortress with undertale.

...mod when?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[JimboM12]

Human child Chara grabs weasel man by the upper back teeth!
Human child Chara throws weasel man!
weasel man slams into *wooden barrel*!
weasel man's head flies off his body in an arc!

weasel man is dead

edit, i haven't seen df combat logs in a long while, heh

[Egan_BW]

I'm pretty sure that mod exists, if you want to dig some.

[Derpy Dev]

I'm pretty sure that mod exists, if you want to dig some.

I think it's too off topic to discuss that more here lol

Also, I've thought about DDLC a bunch since I last played it, and I gotta come out and say it - Monika had a point. There's a certain point you reach in this game where you know that things are going worse for the girls there, but you keep playing because you want to see where it's going. If you thought for an instant that real people were suffering because of this choice, you'd stop playing, but you keep playing because you don't believe that to be true.

Monika is the same. She knows the rest of the girls aren't real and don't really suffer. So to gain access to the one thing in her world that was real, she was perfectly happy to have them killed. This killing was no different than you killing goomba's in Mario. Both block access to what you want, neither are real, and both need to be disposed of for your goals.

[Egan_BW]

They are person-shaped pictures accompanied by text, planted by a game developer to make me feel emotions. Then the game developer shows me there's nothing behind the cardboard cutout, a fact that I already knew, but causes me to feel different emotions and think about weird stuff to do with stories and cutouts and interactivity.
Oh yeah and they're cute.

Koopas are mostly designed by a game developer to be fun to jump on, and are not very deeply thought-provoking. Though they can also be cute.

[Derpy Dev]

They are person-shaped pictures accompanied by text, planted by a game developer to make me feel emotions. Then the game developer shows me there's nothing behind the cardboard cutout, a fact that I already knew, but causes me to feel different emotions and think about weird stuff to do with stories and cutouts and interactivity.
Oh yeah and they're cute.

Koopas are mostly designed by a game developer to be fun to jump on, and are not very deeply thought-provoking. Though they can also be cute.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But here's the thing. Killing koopas and killing the girls in DDLC is different in a way I don't think I touched on in the previous post, from an in universe perspective. In universe? Killing koopas is Mario making his way towards his destination, his end goal, and a sign that he's kind of a sociopath if you're into Game Theory. But it's inherently different from Monika killing the DDLC cast because of the in universe perspective. The whole point of DDLC is that there is no in universe perspective. The DDLC universe? That's our universe. In the canon of DDLC, DDLC is an anime dating sim, while Mario has it's own story and history and universe. In canon, Mario is not a video game.

Only a very few video games are video games in canon, and DDLC is one of them. Which is why we have the interesting philosophical implications of whether or not Monika did anything wrong. Because in DDLC's canon, all she did is what every Mario player does. If you wouldn't condemn a Mario player for killing koopas, can you condemn Monika?

For me? The answer's weird. I'm angry because I liked those characters she corrupted (especially Sayori, I might relate to her emotional struggles a little too much) but if I think about it logically, I know that my anger is unrelated to the issue at hand, and shouldn't let it taint my opinion. So that's why I'm trying to think from Monika's perspective. Because we only care because we find the characters of DDLC cute and funny, and if every koopa talked about their feelings we wouldn't want to kill them either, even though they probably have families or friends like any army soldier would.

Monika sees the rest of the cast like you see koopas because for her, that's mostly what they are. She doesn't care about their lives and families, and they stand in the way of what she wants. Same with koopas in Mario.

[Egan_BW]

Monika sees the rest of the cast like you see koopas because for her, that's mostly what they are.

Whilst hilariously missing the implications this has for herself. In the end though, it's just an extra layer. It's part of the play that she thinks and does the things she does, it's a story. So really you can feel as angry or not as you like, because it's a story and a tool to help you feel how you want to feel about it.
Because fiction cannot actually interact with reality in that way, when the fourth wall is broken and another layer is revealed, with its own fourth wall. It doesn't make sense to both be able to judge Monika as a person within the fiction as the same time as you judge her victims as characters from outside the fiction, because they're demonstrated to be the same. Either all of them are real and it's murder, or none of them are real so it's simply a story.

[Derpy Dev]

Whilst hilariously missing the implications this has for herself. In the end though, it's just an extra layer. It's part of the play that she thinks and does the things she does, it's a story. So really you can feel as angry or not as you like, because it's a story and a tool to help you feel how you want to feel about it.
Because fiction cannot actually interact with reality in that way, when the fourth wall is broken and another layer is revealed, with its own fourth wall. It doesn't make sense to both be able to judge Monika as a person within the fiction as the same time as you judge her victims as characters from outside the fiction, because they're demonstrated to be the same. Either all of them are real and it's murder, or none of them are real so it's simply a story.

True!

...don't have anything else to say about that, it's kinda just right.