Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Bumber]

It seems the two main questions are, can units jump z levels and does a one square floor overhang prevent a unit from moving upwards diagonally?

I can confirm that the answers are no, and yes, respectively, in at least Arena mode.

I feel it important to point out that one might also want their walls to keep dwarves in. Just a consideration.

Since I haven't done so yet, I'll repost my diagrams from an older thread:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Non-climbable walls are as easy as putting a floor jutting out on the side you don't want them climbing from.

Code: [Select]

z+1  ___
z+0 __█__Goblins don't get in, dwarves don't get out. It works because you can't grab onto the side of a floor tile.

Don't try to substitute the floors for walls or fortifications:

Code: [Select]

z+1  █_█
z+0 __█__They'll climb diagonally upwards and over.

This, however, is a safe overhang:

Code: [Select]

z+1  ██_██
z+0 ___█___Although the inner pair of walls might as well be the floors from the first picture. It's merely an example of what can't be climbed.

Safe fortifications:

Code: [Select]

z+2  __
z+1  ╬__
z+0 ___█__Ceiling prevents archers from jumping off the wall and charging the enemy.

[Starver]

Ceiling prevents archers from jumping off the wall and charging the enemy.

...the number of times I've had that happen!

And, with that often being over a trench of some height, sometimes quite extreme:

Code: [Select]

    F
#    W
##.  W
C#  .W 
L#   #.
I#   #  . (original slope of overlooking hill that I'm defending against, selectively cut away)
F#   #    .
F#   #      .
##############
##############
...they don't just have the problem of jumping into a fight they can't hope to win, but first sustaining great (even fatal) injuries from their original leap.

[arbarbonif]

Is there a difference between natural and constructed walls?  In my last fort I had a 1z bluff of dirt, I built overhanging walls, with overhanging walls carved into fortifications over those.  The goblin siege mulled around aimlessly as I shish-kabobed them with bolts.  One goblin did get in, but I'm pretty sure he did a quantum tunnelling dodge through the wall (the last combat report before he was inside was him dodging a bolt and smashing into an obstacle).

Code: [Select]

..F
.W
D
Based on what people are saying the gobbos should have had an easy dirt climb into my fort.  There were paths to the archers on the walls (unless being behind wall-carved fortifications blocks sight).  They rushed to the base of the walls when they got shot at, but none climbed in.

[Starver]

Based on what people are saying the gobbos should have had an easy dirt climb into my fort.  There were paths to the archers on the walls (unless being behind wall-carved fortifications blocks sight).  They rushed to the base of the walls when they got shot at, but none climbed in.

I think they probably rushed to the base of the walls because that's where their pathfinding (previously) told them that they could gain access, through a door you then closed.  Now they're targetless, and the pathfinding algorithm isn't giving them the option of a quick (but complicated) choice of climbing, so they're waiting for the next path to open up.

Random-walking wildlife, hostiles and other nuisances (as in the OP) that can climb are free to the climbing route, aimlessly and accidentally gaining access, but the route-finding algorithm doesn't yet test climbing, and without any other impetus (such as dodging into a climbing position) there's no real reason for them to get to the point where they realise they can stop climbing and pop in again at the top.

[arbarbonif]

Based on what people are saying the gobbos should have had an easy dirt climb into my fort.  There were paths to the archers on the walls (unless being behind wall-carved fortifications blocks sight).  They rushed to the base of the walls when they got shot at, but none climbed in.

I think they probably rushed to the base of the walls because that's where their pathfinding (previously) told them that they could gain access, through a door you then closed.  Now they're targetless, and the pathfinding algorithm isn't giving them the option of a quick (but complicated) choice of climbing, so they're waiting for the next path to open up.

Random-walking wildlife, hostiles and other nuisances (as in the OP) that can climb are free to the climbing route, aimlessly and accidentally gaining access, but the route-finding algorithm doesn't yet test climbing, and without any other impetus (such as dodging into a climbing position) there's no real reason for them to get to the point where they realise they can stop climbing and pop in again at the top.

Most of the wildlife that was problematic flew, the langur corpses were at the front gate (which was open) which doesn't really mean much either way, since I only found out about them after they were driven off.  The goblins had been closed out and wandering for a while.  They rushed the wall when the bolts started hitting them, there was no change to accessibility and the wall they were rushing to never had a gate in it.  It looked like they thought they could path, but when they got there they couldn't.  Maybe they were all crappy climbers that couldn't manage a single z level rough dirt wall?

[greycat]

I have a related question: given a simple 1z wall with no overhang that can be climbed by an invading goblin, how likely or frequent is it?  If 100 goblins show up (possibly mounted, etc.), how many of them are going to come over the wall, and how quickly?

If only 1 goblin at a time manages the climb, this sounds perfect.  But if all 100 of them come over the wall at once, well... that's not.

[Sanctume]

Climbing is a higher variable in pathing calculation.
What is unknown is the likelyhood they will jump scale up that 1z wall.

To experiment, a 1z natural stone wall that is smoothed is "unclimbable" but creatures should be able to jump up and over that 1z wall.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Noooo...

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS UPWARD JUMPING

IT WAS ALL A HOAX

YOU CAN ONLY EVERY JUMP TO THE SIDE

THIS APPLIES TO EVERYTHING EVER

ANYTHING THAT GOES UP EITHER USED A RAMP/STAIRCASE, OR FLEW, OR CLIMBED

THERE IS NO UPWARD JUMPING

[Detros]

I think you have to be a legendary ranged user to shoot through fortifications with no penalties without being directly adjacent from it, and this set up will leave your fortifications no closer than 4 tiles from an enemy.

No need to be Legendary, Great is enough.

DF wiki says: Enemy elite bowmen and crossbowmen have sufficient skill to fire through your fortifications from any distance within their range and they will shoot right through every time and (likely) decimate your forces.

More about Skill levels. More about Elite.

[Kneenibble]

Noooo...

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS UPWARD JUMPING

IT WAS ALL A HOAX

YOU CAN ONLY EVERY JUMP TO THE SIDE

THIS APPLIES TO EVERYTHING EVER

ANYTHING THAT GOES UP EITHER USED A RAMP/STAIRCASE, OR FLEW, OR CLIMBED

THERE IS NO UPWARD JUMPING

It's just a jump to the left.