Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Button]

I think tantrum spirals should be scaled back a bit to compensate for the increased ease of friendship in 0.40.x. In 34.xx I didn't need to devote any design power to keeping friendships from forming, but right now, even having a communal dining room is asking for a spiral.

[Art]

Friendships shouldn't be such a negative thing that most players strive to prevent them. There should be pros and cons. Right now it is mostly cons.

That said, I would actually like to see more brawls. Even brawls started by happy dwarves. But it should be easier/faster to recover from them.

[Baffler]

Friendships shouldn't be such a negative thing that most players strive to prevent them. There should be pros and cons. Right now it is mostly cons.

That said, I would actually like to see more brawls. Even brawls started by happy dwarves. But it should be easier/faster to recover from them.

This. If a pissed off dwarf starts beating the the crap out of someone they don't like (or as more often happens, random passerby) then yeah, I expect some hospital visits. Dwarves seem like they should be a fairly lively bunch though, and a brawl started under those circumstances shouldn't be quite as severe. I regularly have a single angry dwarf send at least 2 others to the hospital, sometimes even killing them, before the guard gets a chance to administer jail time inflict SWIFT DWARVEN JUSTICE upon the troublemaker. I've also had other random passerby retaliate and knock Urist McGlassJaw's lights out.

[Timeless Bob]

I really don't see why dwarves should kill each-other off to make themselves feel better.  Certainly start a fist-fight, but treat that kind of thing as an ad hoc "wrestler training" session instead.  Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again.  Bunches of depressed dwarves would make a viable military more difficult, but fist-fights would train the local populace in basic survival moves like "Dodge", which would be all to the good when the goblins come calling as well.

Tantrum spirals happen because there's too much destruction during tantrums - with a developing world like we have now, it makes even less sense for every dwarven outpost to be stalked by murderous dwarves every three to five years.

[Two]

I wonder how the Dwarf race actually survived for so long if they tend to kill each other once someone's mood drops?

Maybe that's something that needs fixing. Brawl and beating is fine, you expect something like that from drunken Dwarfs, but killing each other because of bad weather seems illogical to me.

[Dirst]

I really don't see why dwarves should kill each-other off to make themselves feel better.  Certainly start a fist-fight, but treat that kind of thing as an ad hoc "wrestler training" session instead.  Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again.  Bunches of depressed dwarves would make a viable military more difficult, but fist-fights would train the local populace in basic survival moves like "Dodge", which would be all to the good when the goblins come calling as well.

Tantrum spirals happen because there's too much destruction during tantrums - with a developing world like we have now, it makes even less sense for every dwarven outpost to be stalked by murderous dwarves every three to five years.

There is now a level of conflict called "brawl," so this might be part of the plan.

The funniest quote on that wiki page is "Non-lethal fights may end without killing a creature."  May.  Not even usually...

[Miuramir]

Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again. 

Trying to look at it from a dwarf perspective... each dwarf, in their entire lifetime, will have no more than one chance to make their mark on history, literally, with an artifact.  They've got a good chance of becoming legendary, with all the attendant perks (such as less likely to be "accidentally" submerged in lava); even if they're unlucky and don't manage to retain the skill they've been channeled by the gods, they have permanently put a name into the indelible annals of the world itself.  Thousands of miles away and thousands of years in the future, engravers will be deciding what to do today and might choose to inscribe their story, the day Urist made FlickerWing, a solid gold mace decorated with an image of a hummingbird in emerald. 

Except... what do you mean there's no emerald?  There *has* to be emerald, it wouldn't be FlickerWing, the vision from the gods, my perfect artifact, without emerald!  It's my one chance at immortality, the vision is fading already, and because you numbskulls don't have any emerald I can't produce the world's most perfect object... aaaaughh!!!

Actually, what would be amusing is that if someone failed a "normal" artifact mood, there was a chance that they'd snap and convert to a Fell Mood, murder another dwarf and convert *them* into an artifact.  "I'll show them, I'll show them what happens when they don't bother to stock any emeralds!  You!  Do you have any emeralds?  Haha, just as I thought, they're all conspiring against me!  Let's see how well you do as a *hat*!!!"

[Dirst]

Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again. 

Trying to look at it from a dwarf perspective... each dwarf, in their entire lifetime, will have no more than one chance to make their mark on history, literally, with an artifact.  They've got a good chance of becoming legendary, with all the attendant perks (such as less likely to be "accidentally" submerged in lava); even if they're unlucky and don't manage to retain the skill they've been channeled by the gods, they have permanently put a name into the indelible annals of the world itself.  Thousands of miles away and thousands of years in the future, engravers will be deciding what to do today and might choose to inscribe their story, the day Urist made FlickerWing, a solid gold mace decorated with an image of a hummingbird in emerald. 

Except... what do you mean there's no emerald?  There *has* to be emerald, it wouldn't be FlickerWing, the vision from the gods, my perfect artifact, without emerald!  It's my one chance at immortality, the vision is fading already, and because you numbskulls don't have any emerald I can't produce the world's most perfect object... aaaaughh!!!

Actually, what would be amusing is that if someone failed a "normal" artifact mood, there was a chance that they'd snap and convert to a Fell Mood, murder another dwarf and convert *them* into an artifact.  "I'll show them, I'll show them what happens when they don't bother to stock any emeralds!  You!  Do you have any emeralds?  Haha, just as I thought, they're all conspiring against me!  Let's see how well you do as a *hat*!!!"

Turning a failed mood into a fell mood would be awesome, not the least because of how other Dwarves treat it.  "It's not his fault.  There weren't any emeralds."

[SimRobert2001]

Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again. 

Trying to look at it from a dwarf perspective... each dwarf, in their entire lifetime, will have no more than one chance to make their mark on history, literally, with an artifact.  They've got a good chance of becoming legendary, with all the attendant perks (such as less likely to be "accidentally" submerged in lava); even if they're unlucky and don't manage to retain the skill they've been channeled by the gods, they have permanently put a name into the indelible annals of the world itself.  Thousands of miles away and thousands of years in the future, engravers will be deciding what to do today and might choose to inscribe their story, the day Urist made FlickerWing, a solid gold mace decorated with an image of a hummingbird in emerald. 

Except... what do you mean there's no emerald?  There *has* to be emerald, it wouldn't be FlickerWing, the vision from the gods, my perfect artifact, without emerald!  It's my one chance at immortality, the vision is fading already, and because you numbskulls don't have any emerald I can't produce the world's most perfect object... aaaaughh!!!

Actually, what would be amusing is that if someone failed a "normal" artifact mood, there was a chance that they'd snap and convert to a Fell Mood, murder another dwarf and convert *them* into an artifact.  "I'll show them, I'll show them what happens when they don't bother to stock any emeralds!  You!  Do you have any emeralds?  Haha, just as I thought, they're all conspiring against me!  Let's see how well you do as a *hat*!!!"

I Enjoy this thought.

Turning a failed mood into a fell mood would be awesome, not the least because of how other Dwarves treat it.  "It's not his fault.  There weren't any emeralds."

I enjoy this thought, very very much.

[Minepow2]

Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again. 

Trying to look at it from a dwarf perspective... each dwarf, in their entire lifetime, will have no more than one chance to make their mark on history, literally, with an artifact.  They've got a good chance of becoming legendary, with all the attendant perks (such as less likely to be "accidentally" submerged in lava); even if they're unlucky and don't manage to retain the skill they've been channeled by the gods, they have permanently put a name into the indelible annals of the world itself.  Thousands of miles away and thousands of years in the future, engravers will be deciding what to do today and might choose to inscribe their story, the day Urist made FlickerWing, a solid gold mace decorated with an image of a hummingbird in emerald. 

Except... what do you mean there's no emerald?  There *has* to be emerald, it wouldn't be FlickerWing, the vision from the gods, my perfect artifact, without emerald!  It's my one chance at immortality, the vision is fading already, and because you numbskulls don't have any emerald I can't produce the world's most perfect object... aaaaughh!!!

Actually, what would be amusing is that if someone failed a "normal" artifact mood, there was a chance that they'd snap and convert to a Fell Mood, murder another dwarf and convert *them* into an artifact.  "I'll show them, I'll show them what happens when they don't bother to stock any emeralds!  You!  Do you have any emeralds?  Haha, just as I thought, they're all conspiring against me!  Let's see how well you do as a *hat*!!!"

10/10.  Would gleefully read again. 

[martinuzz]

I would love to see tantruming become more inter-related with social aspects of the game, like grudges and personalities. I don't think it makes sense for an entire fortress to break into tantrum at the death of 2 children, just because those were friendly with everyone. It would make more sense if for whatever weird reason, all dwarves happened to have a 'breaks easily under pressure' trait, but with that situation being highly unlikely, it feels too superficial.

On the topic of grudges, I made a suggestion a while back, which I think would fit well with new tantrum mechanics: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140912.0

Thinking on it some more, it might be an idea to abandon loss of a friend as a direct cause of tantrum alltogether.
Instead, death of a friend, or other traumatic event will put the dwarf in an 'on edge' state of mind. While in this state (duration and or severity could vary for different stressors), events that can lead to a dwarf doing tantrumy stuff like punching and toppling will have more severe effect. For example, taking my grudge suggestion, it would increase the chances for the bad things happening, instead of relations getting better.

It requires some splitting up of events into two categories; stressors, that will cause the 'on edge' status, and annoyances, which give bad thoughts and can lead to tantruming.
Besides grudges, I can think of sleeping in the mud, caught in the rain, drinking the same old booze, stung by a bee, things like that, that would classify as 'annoyance'.

[reality.auditor]

Also, dwarves failing to make an artifact should never go into a killing rage - that's stupid.  Let them mope around for awhile uselessly, drinking too much and doing no work - the sad drunks at the bar commiserating with each-other.  Eventually their happiness will increase again from all that loafing about, going to parties or being adopted by a cat and they'll re-enter productivity once again.

Failed mood is irreversible by design of game. Don't expect there much change.

But certainly, some low chance of failed mood changing to fell mood is acceptable for me, because many players (me, for example) never, ever experienced fell mood. And you still lose dwarf, just different one.

[SimRobert2001]

You see, here's what i think. the tantrum, when you suffer one in the same fort on a semi-yearly basis, tends to NOT be :FUN: after awhile.  Its just the same ol' same ol'.  it would be MUCh more interesting if every one was different. varying lengths of time. Varying hostility.  Dwarves collecting stuff, and stealing it.  You may look in his quarters, and find like 80 chairs. One riot is targets the most hated people in the fort. THey start to burn down trees, because well, screw elves!

[Urist Mc Dwarf]

I think if we do get fell moods from failed moods, they fell moods should target dwarves related to the missing item. So a gem cutter if an emerald is missing.