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[crazysheep]

So.... Wait, getting killed is required in industry? I thought the goal was to make stuff not get killed doing your job. Unless your soldier, then that's an expected hazard. (I'm being... what the word... Not sarcastic but not serious.)

When I said Industry though I meant what would be considered industrial (such as working with magma and metal or mass production of wood-based products.) Oddly enough I think beekeeping is probably the safest job ever next to farming in DF. Unless for some reason the bees decide to rebel or the overseer forgot to put up a wall.... Ok, so I got sued by some dorfs for workplace negligence on that one, bite me!

Of course it's not required, it's just a hazard/risk that comes with the job.

Anyway, how many dwarves have you seen die of old age anyway. It's not like it's a common occurence.

Depends on how you run your forts, I've managed to see my dwarves die of old age.

Certainly, they should. Eventually. Once/If we get dwarven forts to not fall in under a decade to various causes. Especially since few people IRL reach "max age" before succumbing to some age-related complication (cancer, arthritis, alzheimers, etc), especially in ages where these conditions didn't lead to special care.
Certainly, things like this should be considered in worldgen.

I'm not sure, but it feels like things like natural death get considered during worldgen.
Also, peaceful forts in Calm/Low Evil regions should tend to see more natural deaths. Even if there are regular goblin invasions.

I'm not sure, but the fact that humans can live to over a hundred fairly frequently, barring wars or famines, seems to suggest against that.
And, while I can see fewer violent deaths in calm or good regions, death by predatory beasts is far from the leading cause of death in DF. It ranks right above old age and right below KBB. More dwarves are killed each year by marauding kobold thieves than by wolves, although certain scavangers stealing food isn't uncommon. My point is, while natural deaths from entirely natural causes should happen, in DF's world, "natural" deaths (e.g. "One quite naturally dies when a goblin sticks a scimitar into a vital organ") complicated by natural causes (e.g. joint issues impacting agility) would be more common.

Ah. I get what you mean now, and I agree.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Since I have a deep-seated respect for veterans..... I'd have to say Urist McHauler can go screw. I'd rather have my dwarves disturbed by my Militia Commander's laughter as he recounts that time he bisected two goblins and strangled a kobold while he bit its arm off.

Anyone who can bisect multiple goblins while strangling a kobold and biting its arm off has my respect. Unless, of course, he was just telling a tall tale.

And in DF, you gotta respect veterans. How the hell they managed to live to even become infirm enough to be more of a liability would be a stunning achievment. Although a super active dwarf, like a solider or mason who has to lug heavy stones around constantly probably wouldn't have too many issues in the DF world.

Unless they got old war wounds or whatever from their years of stressful work.

I've got a married couple of humans who're in keel over dead territory (mid 80s!) who chopped a goblin siege to ribbons. With freaking copper swords no less. Hell they weren't bugged in the slightest when a ghost scared a 16 year to death in front of them.

That...is the kind of thing that should be fixed. Few medieval people reached 80, let alone were in goblin-chopping shape at that point.

Bah, I'm ranting. A slow physical stat decline for dwarves in thier 130s on would probably be good to simulate it (dwarves can live between 150 and 175, barring "fun.") since earrlier would hurt your starters a little bit if it were in thier 70s or 80s, since that's middleaged for dwarves. Comparitivly, humans got a max of 120, also barring battledeaths or other things and thier middle aged is of course at late 20s to early 40s (one of my founders was 28, the oldest was 43.)

Hm...Well, first off, I wouldn't put the start of modern human middle age until the late 30s, but if dwarves would start in their middle age, it might get...complex. I think someone should look up just how long people lived in the real-world middle ages, then we can compare it to the DF!human maxage, and compare those figures to dwarven maxage to estimate a good age for (normal) dwarves to tend to die at. Legendary and military dwarves should have some kind of trait to boost lifespan; maybe legendary dwarves should get lower penalties based on the number of legendary skills they have, and military skills should train physical aributes enough to help really strong dwarves stave off the effects of old age. Ideally, kills would provide enough of a boost to skill or something so that your dwarves that kill a hundred goblins also get to live longer.

-Snip-

Humans-Retire into a form of nobility.
Elves-Lay down near a tree and slit there throat once unable to work, letting the tree feast on the nutrient filled corpse.
Dwarves-WORK UNTIL DEATH.
Kobolds-Nom nom yummy old guy.
Goblin-Nom nom yummy old guy.
Thats how I think retirement should work.

Ah, Corai, you're always so...amusing.

-snip-
Ah. I get what you mean now, and I agree.

I love it so much when people start arguing and realise they were in agreement all along. The last part, at least.

[Splint]

In the middle ages it was disease and famine that did alot of people in while they were young or getting on in years (probably around late 40s and up.) Hell even in the BC area of time if someone made it past early childhood they could live into thier 60s or older in some cases. Barring getting killed  because you cut your hand or got a splinter. Or getting shot in the face, being stabbed, beaten to death, or killed in a job-related mishap.


Usually the starting 7 are in thier 60s to 80s, placing that as the dwarven middle aged. With my humans the average was 33 among the founders, with the oldest in his early 40s. As far as those swordmasters go I'm expecting old age to cause them to keel over any minute now.

[GreatWyrmGold]

In the middle ages it was disease and famine that did alot of people in while they were young or getting on in years (probably around late 40s and up.) Hell even in the BC area of time if someone made it past early childhood they could live into thier 60s or older in some cases. Barring getting killed  because you cut your hand or got a splinter. Or getting shot in the face, being stabbed, beaten to death, or killed in a job-related mishap.

So...let's say that the realistic, midieval-era, maximum age barring luck, good or bad, is around 2/3 of the larger maxage (~80 for humans, ~110 for dwarves).

Usually the starting 7 are in thier 60s to 80s, placing that as the dwarven middle aged. With my humans the average was 33 among the founders, with the oldest in his early 40s. As far as those swordmasters go I'm expecting old age to cause them to keel over any minute now.

I'm sorry to hear about the swordmasters. May their deaths be swift and glorious. Andhoo...that means that, assuming the rules are tailored so that dwarves tend to keel over from some illness a few years after their 100th birthday, you've got around 20-40 years before you need to worry about sudden death, and probably at least a decade before they're severely impaired by age. They might start weak, but once A. worldgen accounts for these issues with elderly survival and B. Starting Seven Selection takes population ratios into account (ideally estimating on the lower end of average, since the elderly are less likely to uproot their lives), then you'll get to avoid most aging penalties most of the time for at least a few years, AND most people will get to see the aging mechanics in action before their fortresses implode in an orgy of fire and violence. Mostly win-win!

[Splint]

Sounds about right on all counts.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm glad when people agree with me. It's such a nice change from my everyday life...