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[JT]

I would like very much to have a feature to break down and discard stone (probably a feature at the Mason's Workshop which just involves hauling to the shop and a very quick breaking process that produces no debris, to make things simpler).  In every single one of my forts so far, I've been completely incapable of using the stone faster than I mine it.  I usually wind up with huge tracts of land above the surface completely dedicated to stone piles, acting as overflow for my mining piles that are closer to my ore lodes...

[karnot]

quote: In every single one of my forts so far, I've been completely incapable of using the stone faster than I mine it.

Well...at least its realistic, isnt it ?
At least you can process stone into blocks, and block can go into bins.
Which is still not a big help, coz even if you build bin - it will be immediately occupied with wood, or gems,or whatever the hell else.

[Toady One]

This is one of things that's been tossed back and forth -- I think there was a decision at some point to allow a tunnel vs. mine designation, so you could dig but not leave behind as much stone.  I personally like how it leaves stone from a "realism" standpoint, and it isn't a problem with the way I play, but if it's a play issue for others, I don't mind adding the tunneling option.  I don't remember the req number right now, but there was probably more on the idea written up there.

[Curiousepic]

I like the realism aspect as well, the entire logistics concept is a big defining part of this game IMO.  I think the best way to do it would be, as suggested, add a break down stone option to the mason's workshop, which creates "rubble" or "gravel", which will then decay after a certain time, but only if placed outside or in a refuse pile.

[Toady One]

If there's a break-down option in a shop, why not just make a door/crafts with it?  Wouldn't it take the same amount of haul time roughly?

[ussdefiant]

or just have any tunnel job create a bunch of rubble instead of rock, which must be dragged outdoors where it will immediately disappear.

[Aquillion]

Problems:

Stone is an important part of management in the game right now.  Players need to arrange ways to get stone away from wherever they're digging if they want to build there, and have to manage the removal of stone in order to keep things functioning, just like in a real mine.

Possibly, though, stone could be allowed to stack if placed outdoors.  This would keep the gameplay essentially intact, without requiring an absolutely huge expanse of stone-storage outside the fortress.  It also makes sense; you can't stack it indoors, but outside you could dump it into a giant pyramid or something.

For deeper in the mine, there could be an option to dump it into chasms...  but how would players decide how much to dump?  They need some of it.

[Toady One]

It could be handled in the bookkeeper "stocks" screen, somewhat like melting down objects for the smelter.  And just like melting down objects for the smelter, you should also be able to interact with individual objects from the look view or their menus (or just vague "Slate x 245" things), although you can't currently.  The individual item screen is fairly uncluttered, so it could accomodate some things.  And the stocks screen can open into whatever management system.

I like the mine feel, but if it game-kills some people, it's good to help.  Games should be fun.  Some other bugs first though.  Lots to lots to do.

[karnot]

I'll also vote for "breaking" option, not "tunneling" one. Or just implement the wall-building. Maybe some landmarks, like dwarven Sphinx or something ?

[JT]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One
<STRONG>If there's a break-down option in a shop, why not just make a door/crafts with it? Wouldn't it take the same amount of haul time roughly?</STRONG>

It would take the same haul time, sure, but if it breaks down instantly it would only be the haul time to worry about.  Building doors takes many seconds, not to mention furniture space (something I know all too well when I'm rushing to construct new bedrooms for a wave of immigrants twice as big as my current population...).  Crafts are a bit more manageable since they can be sold off, but there's still the issue of convincing the !*$%ing Craftsdwarf to start working, and it still takes time. ;-)

I don't think there should be a distinction between mining/quarrying and tunnelling.  I do like the "feel" and the logistics involved with moving lots of stone.  But after the stone is moved out of the mine, it no longer has a purpose.  It just wastes space and looks ugly (big tracts of quarried stone make Baby Elfis cry).

The alternative I was considering before making this post was a "Discard" [d]esignation, which would either 1) destroy all of the objects immediately, or 2) cause all of the uninstalled objects within the designated area to be flagged so the dwarves would chasm it or toss it into a river (presumably the river would wash the stones downstream and not get clogged).

However, I liked the break-down suggestion more, not to mention that it is a lot easier to implement.

[ August 12, 2006: Message edited by: JT ]

[ August 12, 2006: Message edited by: JT ]

[karnot]

Or maybe donate that stone for village to build housing and pave roads...

[JT]

Well, they'd better bring wagons.  I'm not paying for it. ;-)

[Toady One]

And a mining pile outside?  That's just haul time, and otherwise unused space.  It's not that I'm stridently against breaking down, it's just one of those conservation law things... *not* that the game is big on that...

[polpoint]

I like the stones staying. they are annoying when you are trying to build a building on top of a bunch of rubble, and I never seem to get around to building some huge indoors stone storage, but that makes sense. I would recommend , something like some towns coming and purchasing large amounts of it or tossing it into a cashm or something? I mean if you carved out a huge mine, you need somewhere to put it. it is a little bit annoying but one more great touch to admire/agonize over.

Dont you people need to build roads and bridges anyways? As long as I keep my mason & mechanic working, building supports, & crafts & what not I dont have too big of a pile

maybe you people are too nice to your dwarves... you have to pack them in!! 1x1 is fine for your room little guy

[karnot]

quote: maybe you people are too nice to your dwarves... you have to pack them in!! 1x1 is fine for your room little guy

They are dwarves, not Benders.