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[Man of Paper]

I don't get why we can't get a workable vehicle at it's base cost. The subsystem thing is really poorly defined - are brakes a subsystem? Windshield wipers? Exhaust? Technically they would be. Adding more points is just a band-aid. Not to be an asshole going "boo my interpretation of the rules is better than what you intended it to be", but I was able to make a list with some gaps and room to improve on the base 50 without needing to worry about including the very basic common sense equipment.

I think I know what it's attempting to do - give us component tech bases to work off of - but we can modify or develop individual "subsystems" (I think engines are less subsystem and more a requirement to actually function, but w/e) with our actions and assume we get the basics needed to run the things.

But I've harped enough, and ultimately it's your game and your rules, so do what you're comfortable with.

[Aseaheru]

 What I consider to be a subsystem, and I will put this in the OP, includes engines, radio sets, fire control systems in their entirety, any and all sensor system past periscopes, and of course armaments. Something that I think has been overlooked is that subsystems, unless they are able to be used on their own, do not cost extra on imported items.
 So, to attempt to use a TR-85(which would have a cost of 8 points, plus the standalone weapons) as an example, it would consist of the base vehicle, its A-308 100mm gun, PKT and DShK machineguns, 8VS-A2T2M diesel engine, Ciclop fire control system, DLC 81mm smoke grenade/flare launchers, SAILR laser warning receiver, SAGEM MATIS passive thermal viewer/image intensification system and "HF/UHF transceivers with intelligent frequency hopping and encryption". As all of its main weapons are able to be used on their own, this brings up the cost to 13, or 8 if only imported.(8+2+2+1).

 You might get the impression that I am aiming for alot of imported items right at the start. You would not be incorrect.

[Jerick]

Jerick, according to the GM it needs to include engines, which'd give it the 5th, unless we want a mothballed fleet. Which I mean doesn't sound like a bad way to get a bunch of half-designs to work on, but I'd rather not.

Ah yes you are correct, in my defense the system is a little confusing.

[Man of Paper]

So to have a moderately functional armory we have to put ourselves in a position where any number of threats could immediately cut off our supply of said equipment. If we had even an inkling that they're not going to be some space demons or some shit that'd be able to isolate us that'd be one thing. Not a gamble I'm okay with, so someone else is gonna need to write up a kit we can *actually* use I guess.

[Aseaheru]

 Whatever you do wind up buying will be about for another four turns of mucking with before conflict starts. Two of fairly limited work representing incremental improvements and the like by the military and contracted offshore, and two of you lot actually mucking with yer companies.

 As I was feeling a tad tired, have an example of a 57p list, negating some smallarms, everything naval, and some air stuff.

Spoiler: Example (click to show/hide)

SMALLARMS:(8p)
StG 57 (1 pt)(FMJ)
Gewehrgranaten 58(1ptx3)(HEAT(300mm pen), Smoke, AP(impact))(No booster charges, limited to 125m)
MG 51 (1pt)(Tracer ammo)
Browning HiPower w/ optional stock(.5pt)(FMJ free, HP .5pt)
Miniman AT rocket(2pt)(250m max range, 340mm penn)


VEHICLES:(12p)(20 total)
Panzer 68 MBT (2pp(large, import),+1pp for L7 gun(MG 51 paid for elsewhere))
FV432 APC(2pp(import, large)
Combat Vehicle 90 (4pp(import, large)+Mk44 Bushmaster II(1pp(import)(API free,HEI(1p))+MG 51(paid for elsewhere)
TPz Fuchs Standard(1p(import))

AIR ASSETS:(37p)(57p total)
HH-43F(1p, import)
PZL W-3 Sokół(8p(large, armament))
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23(2p+8(large, import, armament), Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 autocannon, R-23 medium-range missile, R-60 short-range missile, Kh-23 Air-to-surface missile
Mikoyan MiG-27MF(4p+15(large, import, armaments)Kh-27PS Missile(technically a 1980 design), FAB-500 bomb, S8 rocket(2p per, HEAT, Penetrating, FAE, Illum, Chaff(total of 10p)

[Man of Paper]

Uh yeah see, the problem with that list is all but, like, two of the things on there are as old as my grandfather. But I assume we're going to be in a modern age due to the pricing defining up to modern day. And we're facing something that could very well be advanced even past that. I mean if both sides were restricted to the same rules for equipment that'd be one thing, but they aren't. God forbid we have to fight some Pacific Rim-style shit. Or aliens. Or robots. Anything but an internal rebellion, which is the only thing that'd guarantee we'd have parity in a modern day while we're requiring imports that are 50 years old...

[Aseaheru]

Whatever you do wind up buying will be about for another four turns of mucking with before conflict starts. Two of fairly limited work representing incremental improvements and the like by the military and contracted offshore, and two of you lot actually mucking with yer companies.

The list is really not intended to be the end-all and be-all of your military equipment at the game start, its intended more to give some history and a baseline, as well as providing equipment to fall back on should it be required.

[Taricus]

Mede

Capital: Umbrial
Other Notable Cities: High Harbour, Machikaze, Galah, Tuckerton
Cultures: The Medites have a variety of influences from the Pacific cultures, though the most prominent are Australia and Japan. There is a notable Russian minority.
Government: Cyberocratic Hybrid Regime
Economy: Industrial/Service

Equipment:
Ground (Infantry/Support)
M1911A1 - +1 Point (1924)
AK-74M - +4 Points (1991)
M60E3 - +4 Points (Somewhere in the '80s)
Barrett M82 - +4 Points (1989)
ACOG Sights - +2 Points (Late 80s, IMPORTED)
Telescopic Sight/BORS Module - +4 Points (2007, IMPORTED)
M2HB .50 cal. Machine Gun - +1 Point (States it was developed post-WW2, assuming '50s)
L16 81mm Mortar - +2 Points (1965)
MK3A2 Concussion Grenade - +4 Points (1980s)
Interceptor Body Armor - +2 Points (Late '90s, IMPORTED)

Infantry/Support Total: 28 Points

Ground Vehicles
Puma +16 Points (2015, Assuming Large, IMPORTED)
Leopard 2A5 +8 Points  (1995, Assuming Huge, IMPORTED)
M151A2 Utility Truck - +1 Point (1968, IMPORTED)

Ground Vehicles Total: 25 Points // Current Overall Total: 53 Points

Navy (Bit strong, but here here we some form of ship)
Jose Andrada-Class Patrol Craft +8 points (1990, Assuming Large)

Navy Total: 8 Points // Current Overall Total: 61 Points

Okay, tidied up MoP's suggestion and made a few changes. But that being said, don't make us buy every single bloody component individually, that's just going to be hell on us players and you.

[Aseaheru]

 Yep, Im not. If its not able to be taken off and used on its own or a weapons system, its free.

[Screech9791]

Mede

Capital: Umbrial
Other Notable Cities: High Harbour, Machikaze, Galah, Tuckerton
Cultures: The Medites have a variety of influences from the Pacific cultures, though the most prominent are Australia and Japan. There is a notable Russian minority.
Government: Cyberocratic Hybrid Regime
Economy: Industrial/Service

Equipment:
Ground (Infantry/Support)
M1911A1 - +1 Point (1924)
AK-74M - +4 Points (1991)
M60E3 - +4 Points (Somewhere in the '80s)
Barrett M82 - +4 Points (1989)
ACOG Sights - +2 Points (Late 80s, IMPORTED)
Telescopic Sight/BORS Module - +4 Points (2007, IMPORTED)
M2HB .50 cal. Machine Gun - +1 Point (States it was developed post-WW2, assuming '50s)
L16 81mm Mortar - +2 Points (1965)
MK3A2 Concussion Grenade - +4 Points (1980s)
Interceptor Body Armor - +2 Points (Late '90s, IMPORTED)

Infantry/Support Total: 28 Points

Ground Vehicles
Puma +16 Points (2015, Assuming Large, IMPORTED)
Leopard 2A5 +8 Points  (1995, Assuming Huge, IMPORTED)
M151A2 Utility Truck - +1 Point (1968, IMPORTED)

Ground Vehicles Total: 25 Points // Current Overall Total: 53 Points

Navy (Bit strong, but here here we some form of ship)
Jose Andrada-Class Patrol Craft +8 points (1990, Assuming Large)

Navy Total: 8 Points // Current Overall Total: 61 Points

We have spent 61/75 of our point budget. This means we have 14 points total left to spend on an interceptor/aerial troop transport.

[Man of Paper]

The problem with that loadout is, according to the GM, we'd need to pay for the 30mm autocannon the Puma uses as main armament, as well as it's AT missile and grenade launchers. The boat would require us to pay for it's chaingun and RADAR (we have the rest of it's armament, or a close approximation to it), and the tank would need us to shell out for the 120mm cannon.

Honestly even with five turns of prep, unless we get a dozen designs in that time, we're not going to be able to sufficiently arm ourselves against anything. And the reasoning of providing a baseline as well as fallback equipment infuriates me for a few reasons.

If we try to cover all our bases, well, looks like our entire armory is going to be pulled from a century ago. If not that then a vast majority will be imported. Something that the GM has stated will have some sort of effect. The only effects that importing would sensibly lead to are a) losing access to it due to blockading of some sort or b) they come to aid us as an ally. In which case why don't we just play as the bigger nation? Anyway that's a different tangent altogether. Relying on either century-old tech or imports you'll probably have the capacity to lose access to and using it as fallback equipment feels near-incompetent.

And looking up a little bit we only get four prep turns, and two of them aren't even going to be full capacity. Meanwhile we could be facing interdimensional fucking aliens for all we know. Or a robot revolution. Or a communist one. Or an invasion of cephalopods. Or a race of time traveling mechwarriors.

Our only benefit is having existing, working, somewhat reliable weapons. Until we know what we're facing it's not a reach to assume we'll be the underdog, but it feels like we're getting hit with a fatass nerf bat.

That said I don't know what's going on with the other team, so for all I know they're restricted to using bubble wands and super soakers.

EDIT: I'm going to take a step back and see how this grows before I put any more thought into this. Maybe you know what your doing and have an idea for balancing in mind that won't feel like railroading. Please prove me wrong because I actually want to get involved in an AR and not just run them.

[Aseaheru]

 The radar isint standalone, so thats there for free. Yes, the rest does need to be paid for. It can also be taken off and replaced with other equipment you have paid for, so that puma might be going arround with only a pair of M2s and a M60 if you want.

 Importation mostly has two effects: you dont start off producing it, and you will have slightly less of it.

 Whatever form the other side actually takes(and yes, thats still up in the air), you can rest assured that its not going to be in a state to curbstomp you guys first round of combat, because they will not be starting with much, because this is intended to be an asymmetrical fight with, in most scenarios I have planned out for in advance, the advantage in most areas. To point at xenonauts, Xcom, or other games in that guise, they would not be able to bring their full force to bear even if they do outmatch yall. And, of course, with each player on your side able to design and produce(and fight, depending on the scenario), you are considerately more flexible.

[Man of Paper]

Okay, but what's the mechanical effect of importation, specifically the not producing it ourselves? I would have assumed that it led to a higher expense level, except you imply that as a totally separate effect (having "slightly less of it"). This tells me we either need to spend actions to make it something we produce, in which case why wouldn't we just use said actions on creating more modernized equipment? You mention this system was utilized a couple years ago, and it really feels like it. Looking up this Ukranian Ranger fellow and...why would you use a system that's so old, long abandoned, and didn't really see any good playtesting (unless I'm not seeing a thread that goes more than six pages)? Not to mention their game has a much smaller spread of years between the earliest base tech and the start of the game, meaning they're using equipment that, for the most part, wouldn't be a century old. There's only a 40-year tech span in Commissar of Armaments, whereas we've got another 20 years to dig through before we get access to 1-point designs. This is made exponentially worse for this game due to the way technology advances at an increasing rate.

[Aseaheru]

 The mechanical effect of importation is it lowers the potential results of two rolls: having any of it being made and total quantity available. Theres not going to be a real expense level as you might be used to from most arms race games, and difficulty of production is unaffected by it, except potentially at first(depending on how you go about getting plans for them, i.e., reverse engineering in a factory or buying plans/reverse engineering on your own).
 Why you might not just spend the extra effort to create new equipment, that is indeed an option. As for why, well, you can use slightly different resources for it and it will be faster.
 As for why I am using a system so old for the starting setup, because it gives you lot the opportunity to shape initial equipment instead of, for example, my going "yall be french now" and dumping a load of obsolete french crap on you. As you have looked at the other games using the same setup, you can see that it is only used for initial equipment, as is being done here. Yes, the spread is greater, but then there are nations still using pre 1900s equipment for their armed forces, and I wished to give that opportunity to you lot, considering this isint just you equipping the front line troops, but the entirety of the nations security apparatus. The increased prices due to greater timespans are an unhappy side effect of that, but also accounts for the nation being a comparably backwater area for most of its history until you lot, each with your own companies and negating the sometimes decades long development process of equipment, came along. So, yes, you are being encouraged to buy old outdated shit, because five turns after combat starts Im probably going to see you shoving people in autocannon equipped power armor even with this.

[Aseaheru]

 In any event, votes are as follows: (remember, three votes and its accepted)

PARTIAL ACCEPTANCE

NAVY
Jose Andrada-Class Patrol Craft |2

AIR
Mig 19 |1
A-10 Thunderbolt II |1
Mil-Mi-24 "Hind" w/ GSh-30-2-K (import) |1

INFANTRY ARMS
FN P90 PDW |1

GROUND VEHICS
M2 Bradley (import) |1
Puma (import) |2
Leopard 2A5 (import) |2

ITEMS ACCEPTED (23.5/75p)

M1911A1 (.5p, civilian)
-.45 ACP FMJ rounds
AK-74M (4p)
-7N6M OR 7N6
M60E3 (4p)
-M80 Ball
Barrett M82(4p)
M2HB(1p)
-ball, M2
-armor-piercing incendiary (API), M8
ACOG optical sights (import) (2p, civilian)
BORS module (import) (4p, civilian)
L16 81mm Mortar (2p)
-L15A3 HE(light)
Mk3A2 concussion grenade(1p)(cannot actually find information on date of development)
Interceptor body armor (import) (2p)
M151A2 quarter ton 4x4 utility truck (import) (1p)