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Author Topic: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd  (Read 4043 times)

Fabulous death bringer

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Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« on: August 16, 2015, 10:43:06 am »

So I want to adapte/ modify this http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Jester_(3.5e_Class) in to a class for 5e.

I am going to run throw what ideas I had for each thing of this class, with out actually going in depth about the homebrew.
This isn't about if the original is OP or not.

The goal is to make a 5e version that is balanced and good.

So lets start.

    First off, the jester is a mix of bard and rouge. Focusing on the weird and randomness of a jester to affect enemies and getting those few extra hits in. ((maybe not the best description))


at level 1

 Armor Either give them Light armor or I thought one could do a unarmored defense using Charisma instead of Wisdom or Con.

Weapon
In the homebrew, a jester doesn't get given any proficiency. instead they don't get penalties. My problem is, there is no weapon penalties but for if you are small using a heavy. So I had the idea to edit "jack of all trades", instead it lets jester use half of their proficiency bonus to any weapon the jester doesn't have proficient with.
So a jester would be as effective in combat with a chair or a great sword. the feature name is "Props for battle" or something to do with Props.
I am tempted to give proficiency with daggers and clubs.

Magic

Well, my best Idea was use arcane trickster and just use the bard spell list.

Not sure how many spell the jester should get.

Poison use

the homebrew lets jester prepare, apply, and use poison with out risk of poisoning them selves. I personally think I could just give them poisoner's kit, or just not at all.

Ignore components
I think I will do some sort of focus. like a jester stick, which would be a rod. or something like that.

2nd level

laugh it of

immune to compulsion effects? That is something I am not familiar with. From simple research. It is affects that effect the mind.

So should i just turn this into advantages against enchantment spells? or just being charmed or the sort?

Level 3

power slide

a jester can use his reaction to be flung back comically after being hit by an attack.

This one can be adopted easily enough. But i don't know if attack of opportunity or not.
 
sneak attack This is completely fine in my opinion, less then a rouge and gains them at a slower rate. it works.

level 4

jester's feint
This one is kind of weird and I don't fully know how to adapt this into 5e. would the enemies


And everything after that Point I am compltely out of my depth and have no clue how to edit them for 5e.

I hope for all your help.



« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 11:07:57 am by Fabulous death bringer »
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sjm9876

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 11:06:13 am »

Firstly, the link in the OP is broken.

Moving onto the actual class, you need to bear in mind that 5e is a slightly lower powered game. As such, you want to be taking 5e classes as your base, rather than the jester homebrew.

Personally, I would make a list of class features for a basic bard (minus spells) and an arcane trickster (using bard spells), then eliminate abilities that don't fit - though bear in mind that some things tied to bard spellcasting, like their focus, could still carry across.

Then it's a matter of reflavouring - for example, a bard's countercharm could take the place of harlequin's mask, but already balanced for 5e.
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Fabulous death bringer

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2015, 11:10:39 am »

i think I fixed the link. And I was thinking of that, but my friend wanted it to be as closely related to the original as possible.

This is more so I can learn more about class editing, more then just simply modifying a class. I want to see the logic behind the choises people put forward.

your point is good to know. and I will make note of it.
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sjm9876

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2015, 11:17:41 am »

In that case, to get a fun, balanced class you're pretty much down to rough guesses, practice, and playtesting. Make a draft version, then compare to 5e bard/rogue for power levels and adjust accordingly.
For abilities, try to stick to the theme and general idea rather than the mechanics. For Jester's Feint, for example, they distract an enemy, which would to me grant advantage on the attack roll. 'Course, that's rather powerful, so you may want it to be a limited use bonus action (or maybe to use an actual item, but I have no idea how that would balance up).
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Fabulous death bringer

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2015, 12:23:42 pm »

In that case, to get a fun, balanced class you're pretty much down to rough guesses, practice, and playtesting. Make a draft version, then compare to 5e bard/rogue for power levels and adjust accordingly.
For abilities, try to stick to the theme and general idea rather than the mechanics. For Jester's Feint, for example, they distract an enemy, which would to me grant advantage on the attack roll. 'Course, that's rather powerful, so you may want it to be a limited use bonus action (or maybe to use an actual item, but I have no idea how that would balance up).

Yeah the feint, seems a bit abusable. I feel like making it a limited use like twice before a short rest or X/before long rest.

i have been looking back and forth between rouge and bard to get good ideas.

oh and i made a mistake for Laugh it off, it actually give the charisma modifier to saving throws. Which i feel is to powerful for a level 2, but maybe a level 3 or 4. I mean the paladin gets an ability like that but it affects every one in 10 feet of him, which makes that a more powerful version of the laugh it off ability.
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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2015, 04:45:49 pm »

Armor Either give them Light armor or I thought one could do a unarmored defense using Charisma instead of Wisdom or Con.
Unarmored Defense would be very cool.
Weapon
In the homebrew, a jester doesn't get given any proficiency. instead they don't get penalties. My problem is, there is no weapon penalties but for if you are small using a heavy. So I had the idea to edit "jack of all trades", instead it lets jester use half of their proficiency bonus to any weapon the jester doesn't have proficient with.
So a jester would be as effective in combat with a chair or a great sword. the feature name is "Props for battle" or something to do with Props.
I am tempted to give proficiency with daggers and clubs.
Jack of All Trades with weapons is an awesome concept. If you go with that, I recommend skipping the prof. with daggers/clubs.
Magic

Well, my best Idea was use arcane trickster and just use the bard spell list.

Not sure how many spell the jester should get.
I would give them Arcane Trickster spells/day. With their combat abilities, they're a strong class, even without spells.
Poison use

the homebrew lets jester prepare, apply, and use poison with out risk of poisoning them selves. I personally think I could just give them poisoner's kit, or just not at all.
A poisoner's kit makes sense.
laugh it of

immune to compulsion effects? That is something I am not familiar with. From simple research. It is affects that effect the mind.

So should i just turn this into advantages against enchantment spells? or just being charmed or the sort?
Maybe Advantage on Saving Throws against being Charmed.
power slide

a jester can use his reaction to be flung back comically after being hit by an attack.

This one can be adopted easily enough. But i don't know if attack of opportunity or not.
Make an Acrobatics check with a DC equal to either the damage, twice the damage, or the attacker's attack roll result?
sneak attack This is completely fine in my opinion, less then a rouge and gains them at a slower rate. it works.
Agreed, it's good.
jester's feint
This one is kind of weird and I don't fully know how to adapt this into 5e.
What about something like the Protection Fighting Style, or Warding Flare from the Light Domain? It could give enemies Disadvantage on their attacks.
And everything after that Point I am completely out of my depth and have no clue how to edit them for 5e.
Well, we have a good start here.

Fabulous death bringer

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 02:49:28 pm »

Okay, so I have a question about the Harlequin mask.

It can either be painted on or have an actual mask.

but i am not sure how that would work. i feel like they should have their own strengths and weaknesses but That might be a bit too complex.
I mean, if you look up Harlequin mask, you can find simplistic to complicated.  some of them covers the mouth.
any on that note.

Any ideas on starting equipment?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 02:54:46 pm by Fabulous death bringer »
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Fabulous death bringer

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2015, 10:42:16 pm »

So i decided to try a few different ways of making a jester.

the first way is doing the original homebrew.

and this is what i have

THE JESTER  in a nutshell
Hip point: d8
Weapons:none
Armor: light
Tools: poisoner’s tool, and 2 instruments
Saving throws: dex and cha
Skills: same as rouge
1]
“Prop user”: gains half their proficiency bonus to improvied weapons and all non proficient weapons.  Can use any size weapons as long as he can actually pick them up.
Spell casting: same as bard, but for a few changes.
   Arcane focuses are Instruments & rods.
   Jester will learn less spells, and pick off of the Jester spell list.
“Harlequin’s mark”: Pick from Painted or Mask. Each will give their own bonuses. Listed later
2
“laugh it off”: add charisma mod to saving throws.
3
“I’ve been hit”: after being hit with an weapon attack, he can use his reaction to be flung away. The dc = total damage, moves a foot per damage reduced. If he can’t move, then 6d per square not moved due to obstruction.
Sneak attack: slower than rogues, against 1d6 every 3 levels. Next bonus is at level 6. Max sneak attack is 6d6.
4
“Hey look, obvious distraction”: as an action, can throw money, gems, artwork, or other shiny/colorful/ distracting objects, can target any one in 40 feet, that you can see.. Dc = jester spell dc, for intelligence.  If fail, the next attack on the creature is done with advantages. Can’t be affected again it succeded the save. And can be done Charisam mod per shot short rest. Need an item to throw. ((maybe, but for how much the person fails by; that number is how many attacks get advantages on the target.))


((the number represent levels))

after this is done, I am going to re do things using a monk as the base.
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Fabulous death bringer

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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 05:40:29 pm »

So I am almost done, Just a  few more tweaks and I should be done to for the final round of edits.



THE JESTER  in a nutshell
Hip point: d8
Weapons:none
Armor: light
Tools: poisoner’s tool, and 2 instruments
Saving throws: dex and cha
Skills: same as rouge
1]
“Prop user”: gains half their proficiency bonus to improvied weapons and all non proficient weapons.  Can use any size weapons as long as he can actually pick them up.
Spell casting: same as bard, but for a few changes.
   Arcane focuses are Instruments & rods.
   Jester will learn less spells, and pick off of the Jester spell list.
“Harlequin’s mark”: Pick from Painted or Mask. Each will give their own bonuses. Listed later
2
“laugh it off”: add charisma mod to saving throws.
3
“I’ve been hit”: after being hit with an weapon attack, he can use his reaction to be flung away. The dc = total damage, moves a foot per damage reduced. If he can’t move, then 6d per square not moved due to obstruction.
Sneak attack: slower than rogues, against 1d6 every 3 levels. Next bonus is at level 6. Max sneak attack is 6d6.
4
“Hey look, obvious distraction”: as an action, gems, artwork, or other shiny/colorful/ distracting objects, can target any one in 40 feet, that you can see.. Dc = jester spell dc, for intelligence.  If fail, the next attack on the creature is done with advantages. Can’t be affected again it succeded the save. And can be done Charisam mod per shot short rest. Need an item to throw. ((maybe, but for how much the person fails by; that number is how many attacks get advantages on the target.))
5
“Cruel comment”: Deception check vs targets charisma save. If they fail, the target receive disadvantages on the next attack roll, saving throw, or ability check. Can do this charisma modifier/short rest times.
8
“Low comedy” choose melee attack roll, ranged attack roll, spell attack roll, any saving throw or any skill. The person makes a charisma save. If failed, they suffer disadvantages on chooses roll. This last for 1d4 rounds + the difference between the dc and the roll. The jester can do this charisma modifier/ long rest.
9
“slapsick”: on a successful sneak attack, the target movement speed is cut in half till your next turn.
10
“Jack-the-box king”. The jester can make and dismantle traps. He gains proficiency with tinker’s tool and can spot traps while walking at a normal pace. His speciality is jack in the box, which you can make to explode, release gas, shoot a dart, etc. also gains advantages to disarm traps, he then can dismantle them for parts.
11
“What is up my sleeve”: the jester can pull any none magical weapon out of thin air. Roll a slight of hand check, if any one can see your hands then they roll a perception check. If you win the roll, you pull out 1 non magical weapons. This weapon last for 1d4 + charisma modifier rounds. After it expires it will just fade, and people will just kind of forget you had it.
12
“killer clown”: you can make some one fear you. Roll and intimidation check  vs their charisma save roll. If you win then you can choose if them run away as if frighten or are frozen stiff with fear. They would be afraid of you for a minute or until taking damage.
14
“Annoy the gods” you can stop an effect that is affecting you, like being charmed or frightened or even some curses. After a short rest, you can stop the effect of 1 thing effecting you.
16
“knock you off your feet”: if you hit with a sneak attack, you can use you bonus action to try and knock them prone.
18
“swan song” as he leave this world, the jester can make on last joke. He can preform any spell he know like he had cast contingency before hand. But this time can target others instead of self.


Painted mask
1
Gains proficiency with disguise kit.
Advantages on persuasion checks.
7
“Mime” Can preform a spell with a verbal component, without doing the verbal component. The jester can do this proficiency bonus + charisma modifier / long rest
20
“Unpredictable” The jester is always being random and doing what is unexpected. So much so that magic can’t understand him. Any divination magic trying to locate him or learn something about him have a chance of failing or giving false info.  If the spell is targeting the jester directly then see if the spell fails or succeeds, if it succeeds then flip a coin and call heads or tail. Then roll a d100, call high(>=51) or low (<=50). If you get what you called both times, or if you don’t get what you called either times then the spell works with out a hitch. But if you get 1 you called and the other you don’t, then the spell give false info. If the spell is looking in an area and isn’t trying to find the jester but does, roll a d100, it fails with <=33, false if >=34&<=65, and succeeds with >=66.

A Real mask
1
When doing arcane or history checks on mask, the jester gets his proficiency bonus doubled, even if the jester isn’t proficient in either skill.
Advantages on deception checks
7
“So cold gaze”  the jester can prefore some spell with out doing the somic component. Can do this proficiency bonus + charmisa modifier / long rest
20
“The Last laugh” They say death gets the last laugh, but for the jester of the mask, He gets the last laugh. The jester, as long as he has a mask on, will not suffer the effect of aging and will not die of old age.
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Re: Help me modifie a Homebrew Jester class from 3.5 ----> 5e dnd
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 12:00:04 am »

With stuff like the masks, and “Jack-the-box king”, Advantage might be a bit OP. Maybe double proficiency instead.
Other than that, it looks really cool! I'd like to see it in practice!