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[Ribs]

If FPS is that important, maybe Supply / Demand could be disabled.  Supply and demand would only really be that important in out-of-fort trading.  Because let's face it.  Are those elves REALLLLLYYY going to need those 47 +Serraded Green Glass Disks+?

I'm not sure how it would effect in-fort though.  Just because there's a low supply of swords elsewhere doesn't mean that "Sword Sword the Sword of swords" (A fortress designated entirely to really fancy sword production.) should have higher prices.  Maybe I don't understand Supply and Demand...

But I see why swords or sandwiches would decline in value if there are 4,000,000 of them in a fort. Though.

Get your own Masterwork Steel Sword! Free of Charge!

I agree that supply and demand would be more important globally, not so much domestically. It doesn't need to be that complex, really. It could at least have the sensibility of knowing how to lower the price of items you're exporting excessively. There are only so many masterwork mudstone figurines you can export until they start to become worhless...

[Splint]

If FPS is that important, maybe Supply / Demand could be disabled.  Supply and demand would only really be that important in out-of-fort trading.  Because let's face it.  Are those elves REALLLLLYYY going to need those 47 +Serraded Green Glass Disks+?

I'm not sure how it would effect in-fort though.  Just because there's a low supply of swords elsewhere doesn't mean that "Sword Sword the Sword of swords" (A fortress designated entirely to really fancy sword production.) should have higher prices.  Maybe I don't understand Supply and Demand...

But I see why swords or sandwiches would decline in value if there are 4,000,000 of them in a fort. Though.

Get your own Masterwork Steel Sword! Free of Charge!

I agree that supply and demand would be more important globally, not so much domestically. It doesn't need to be that complex, really. It could at least have the sensibility of knowing how to lower the price of items you're exporting excessively. There are only so many masterwork mudstone figurines you can export until they start to become worthless...

Well, worthless to your people. Without player intervention masterworks are quite rare, especially in trade (as of my last fort I've seen a grand total of 4 masterwork items - 1 in 31.25, 2 in 34.11, and 1 in 40.24.) On a good-sized world they'd still have value as masterworks because of all the disparate civs.

[StagnantSoul]

I found a masterwork battle axe in a hillock in adventure mode once. I practically jumped for joy, as I finally had a proper weapon to call my own. Off topic question: Can you name your weapon in adventure mode? I feel as if some of my weapons truly deserve names.

[Ribs]

Yeah, but once you export hundreds of them, they should start decreasing in price unless the demand increases somehow. A masterwork rock craft would go from something almost unique to just rare. If you're dedicated, I guess it could even become common after a decade or two of continuous production.

I dream of a world where every single man, human and goblin will want to have their very own collection of ☼obsidian bracelets and earings☼. I'll start doing infomercials if I have to.

[Ribs]

I found a masterwork battle axe in a hillock in adventure mode once. I practically jumped for joy, as I finally had a proper weapon to call my own. Off topic question: Can you name your weapon in adventure mode? I feel as if some of my weapons truly deserve names.

They get named if you use them enough, the same as in dwarf mode. Not sure what exactly triggers it...

[StagnantSoul]

I have a sword that literally ushered in a golden age (in a small world), yet it still remained an exceptional bronze longsword.

[Ribs]

I have a sword that literally ushered in a golden age (in a small world), yet it still remained an exceptional bronze longsword.

by "use" I meant in combat (or training in dwarf mode). Although I looked in the wiki and didn't find anything about it. I could be limited to dwarf mode after all. I'm not sure... don't think I ever got a named weapon in adv. mode either, even after hundreds of kills

[Alfrodo]

Just thought of a simple way to handle supply/demand in outside fort trading.

(Rerailment noise)

Supply would be determined by:

Civ Resource access: If it's not a dwarf civ, Steel will be much higher value, because the supply of steel goods is low.
Civ Values:  A civ that values martial prowess would obviously have more weapons.

Demand would be determined by:

Civ state: Is there a war going on? a famine? the other two horsemen of the apocalypse? Obviously armor and weapons will be in higher demand if there are major wars going on for a civ, and food for a major famine. (For some reason, that'll make them buy your insanely expensive roasts for even more.)

Civ Values (Again): A civ that values martial prowess would WANT more weapons.

Previous trading: Did you just trade them 400,000 uranium mugs? I'm sure they don't want more.





What I had in mind for how this would be communicated to the player is, when they're trading something:  2 numbers from 1-9 will appear next to the item they're selling to the caravan.  Supply and Demand, which will act as multipliers to the value. (NOT x81, not quite like that... It would max out at 2-3 times the value.)

for supply: 1 being "we are literally drowning in these things" and 9 is "We have never seen this before."

for demand: 1 being "do we really need a big glass sawdisk? no." 9 is "HOLY MARY MOTHER OF FUCKING FRUIT BASKETS GIVE ME THAT RIGHT NOW"

[StagnantSoul]

+1 support on the above.

[Shazbot]

Another impact is your dwarves becoming accustomed to the splendor of your fortress over time. Your masterwork syrup roasts will lose their value if they are churned out in bulk and start losing that top marginal rate of happiness generation. This would encourage players to offer food variety as well as favorite meals.

[Calidovi]

Another impact is your dwarves becoming accustomed to the splendor of your fortress over time. Your masterwork syrup roasts will lose their value if they are churned out in bulk and start losing that top marginal rate of happiness generation. This would encourage players to offer food variety as well as favorite meals.

What happens if you plateau due to overexploiting? Is that your own fault?

[Alfrodo]

Another impact is your dwarves becoming accustomed to the splendor of your fortress over time. Your masterwork syrup roasts will lose their value if they are churned out in bulk and start losing that top marginal rate of happiness generation. This would encourage players to offer food variety as well as favorite meals.

What happens if you plateau due to overexploiting? Is that your own fault?

"You don't know what you got until it's gone." -Somebody, it's an old thing that I've heard lots of places.

In theory, you could stuff all the meals and valuables into a forbidden box and let everyone suffer for a while, so they'll become less accustomed to a life of luxury.

and yes.

[Calidovi]

Another impact is your dwarves becoming accustomed to the splendor of your fortress over time. Your masterwork syrup roasts will lose their value if they are churned out in bulk and start losing that top marginal rate of happiness generation. This would encourage players to offer food variety as well as favorite meals.

What happens if you plateau due to overexploiting? Is that your own fault?

"You don't know what you got until it's gone." -Somebody, it's an old thing that I've heard lots of places.

In theory, you could stuff all the meals and valuables into a forbidden box and let everyone suffer for a while, so they'll become less accustomed to a life of luxury.

and yes.

I'd have thought that the accustomization would have tied into fortress wealth, not what the dwarves receive. Seems a little too finicky.

[Shazbot]

Incorporating supply and demand into fortress goods allows a lot of powerful gameplay elements to develop, such as price signals based on a fortresses aggregate likes and dislikes. If a majority of your dwarves prefer cave spider silk and very few prefer giant cave spider silk, you may find the price on cave spider silk goods to be consistently higher if both thread types are equally supplied.

Lets work on a specific problem; three dwarves and a red shirt.

Dwarf A likes the color red and has no shirt.
Dwarf B likes the color blue has no shirt.
Dwarf C likes the color red and has a shirt.

How would each dwarf value the shirt, and who would get the shirt?

As I see it (and all numerical values are for example purposes only):

Dwarf A enters the 'market'. He considers the shirt against his wants and needs and values it based on his situation. He is suffering an unclothed penalty, causing him to lose 100 happiness. He also likes red, and acquiring a red item would grant him a happiness bonus of 50 happiness. Combining the utility (removing an unfulfilled need) and the luxury (meeting a preference), he values the red shirt at 150 dwarfbucks.

Dwarf B enters the market and does the same. The shirt is not his preferred color, but would still remove the unclothed penalty. He values the shirt at 100 dwarfbucks.

Dwarf C enters the market, and values the shirt as a red item at 50 dwarfbucks. However, it is also a utility item he could keep a spare of in his bedroom cabinet, as clothes wear out. Given that he doesn't need a shirt, he is willing to pay half of the utility value, although depending on personality traits like greed he could potentially be willing to pay full price in an item-hoarding behavior. But regardless, he values the shirt at 100 dwarfbucks.

Dwarf A wins the bidding for the red shirt at 150 dwarfbucks. This is desirable for the player because it maximizes dwarf happiness. Dwarf B and C seek out other ways to meet their desires. Dwarf B would ideally seek out a blue shirt while Dwarf C would find a red gemstone, but should no alternatives be found, Dwarf B would bid higher than his happiness value (and have a 'was annoyed by high prices for basic necessities' penalty, perhaps) to acquire a second red shirt.

With a surplus of shirts, Dwarf C begins to buy spare shirts for his cabinet. The fort's cost for a shirt drops below the happiness value ('was pleased at low prices for basic necessities') and we begin to have price signals develop. Shirt production was booming, but there's a lack of pants. Players who track the value of various goods (ideally with these values displayed on the Stocks screen or a new Market screen) can see price signals developing; shirts trading below the value of dyed cloth, pants trading as high as gold bars. Players could then order the production of pants to correct the imbalance.

And here we have some examples of the usefulness of a dynamic value system in the fortress; dwarves (usually) get more of their likes, dwarves (usually) delay hoarding behaviors until after other dwarves have their needs met, and players (usually) identify shortages and surpluses through price signals.

That's my previous suggestion for fortress level supply and demand.