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[cdawg]

quote:I can see this is kind of a touchy subject, so I'm going to have to hold my tongue a bit. But I can't entirely, because I place much more importance on this than any issue of pathfinding or z-axis siege engines or the aerodynamics of skeletal creatures.
This is a wonderful user community: actively helpful forums, people happy to document the project on the wiki, plenty of active third-party projects in the form of data mods, graphic work, and the quite impressive DFMA. I know software developers who would give their own right eye for a community this vibrant. It's an incredibly valuable resource.

I guess it's like getting migrants. Many of us feel that seven dwarves is plenty to manage, and that figuring out how to keep any more than that from being something other than a drain on the booze supply changes the game. But if you're successful, you get this wave of twenty migrants and you have to decide if you're going to leave them outside as sacrifices to the Giant Eagle gods, or take them in and find them work to do.

Now, some of the dwarves that migrate to your fortress don't contribute much. Maybe they came because they simply didn't have a place where they fit in in the mountainhomes. But a look at sphr's profile says he's no maggot milker or animal dissector, he's a professional codecrafter with a specilization in 3D visualization, motivated, organized, and only grumbles mildly at having to refactor code.

Is that really a resource you can afford to just throw away?

thats pretty silly. its like your saying that if you're writing a novel, and some random guy shows up from the street and is like "hey looks like you're writing a book! you know ive worked as a writer before, so howabout i write a couple chapters here and there?"  you should be like "yeah totally man!  heres the typewriter go nuts!" thats not a "resource" you "cant afford to just throw away", its your damn book

[ November 29, 2007: Message edited by: cdawg ]

[sinoth]

quote:Originally posted by cdawg:
<STRONG>thats pretty silly. its like your saying that if you're writing a novel, and some random guy shows up from the street and is like "hey looks like you're writing a book! you know ive worked as a writer before, so howabout i write a couple chapters here and there?"  you should be like "yeah totally man!  heres the typewriter go nuts!" thats not a "resource" you "cant afford to just throw away", its your damn book</STRONG>

Even a writer does have people come in to check the grammar, fix silly typos, and to format the book for print.  That's what we want to do... proofread and help Toady fix problems.  We're not interested in changing the story.  Granted, we can already help by submitting bug reports, we could help even further given access to the source so we can submit our bugs in greater detail.

[cdawg]

well think of it as a painting then.  you dont have somebody come and fix colors for you, and paint over your mistakes.  you do it yourself because its your painting

[I3erent]

If you want to code then maybe you would consider coding an "unpause.exe" for dwarf fortress?

Toady is to busy to be bothered at this point since he is on vacation.

[Flamester]

Hey  Shpr, the guys at http://fl-tw.com/Infinity/index.php  might need some help.
It's a Space MMO with Newtonian physics, go to the site to see the other features it has.

[sinoth]

quote:Originally posted by cdawg:
<STRONG>well think of it as a painting then.  you dont have somebody come and fix colors for you, and paint over your mistakes.  you do it yourself because its your painting</STRONG>

Your first example was better because when writing a book, even though you have freedom to craft whatever story you want, you are still confined by some rules.  You have to pick a language, and follow the rules of grammar, spelling, etc.  With painting, you follow -no- rules, and can experiment to your hearts content without concepts of right and wrong.  In programming, there is definitely right and wrong.  Wrong is a loop taking too long, causing low FPS.  Wrong is a memory leak that slows the program to a halt.  This is the stuff we want to help with, not the creative vision.

I know this thread should probably die, but I do love analogies  

Edit: berent, why are you wanting an unpause.exe?

[ November 30, 2007: Message edited by: sinoth ]

[Dedas]

You don't need to follow any rules when writing, you can invent your own words and language based on your own set of symbol if you like to. The only rules that apply when you create is the ones you set yourself.
Of course, as with everything new, other people are going to interpretate it based on their previous knowledge. So if you want them to understand your work in your way you have to teach them.

[sinoth]

quote:Originally posted by Dedas:
<STRONG>You don't need to follow any rules when writing, you can invent your own words and language based on your own set of symbol if you like to. The only rules that apply when you create is the ones you set yourself.
Of course, as with everything new, other people are going to interpretate it based on their previous knowledge. So if you want them to understand your work in your way you have to teach them.</STRONG>

True, but if you apply that logic to computers, you don't have to follow any rules either.  However, that would require Toady writing his own programming language from the ground up.  After he understood the architecture of the system, he would have to write a parser and compiler.  Once that was done, he would have to write his own graphics and input libraries.  Until that happens, Toady has to follow rules, and we can help with that.

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by sinoth:
<STRONG>

True, but if you apply that logic to computers, you don't have to follow any rules either.  However, that would require Toady writing his own programming language from the ground up.  After he understood the architecture of the system, he would have to write a parser and compiler.  Once that was done, he would have to write his own graphics and input libraries.  Until that happens, Toady has to follow rules, and we can help with that.</STRONG>

It's not unheard of...  Everett Kaser has written a number of logic/puzzle games based on a virtual processor (the "K-CPU"). He wrote his own language, compiler, linkers and runtime, and all of his games have been rewritten to that. (See http://www.kaser.com/kint.html)

Everett's motivation was the constantly changing/breaking Microsoft APIs... Now, he only need write the games once. If MS breaks something, he fixes his K-CPU stuff and all his games work again. And people have written ports of K-CPU so the games run on other platforms.

All that aside... Try and find a metaphor if you must, but DF is Toady's baby. I say let him be the parent he wants to be, and we keep our noses out of it. (Besides, I already tried asking to see the source as well and was denied...  and I'm an awesome coder.   )

[Dedas]

I agree.
I believe Toady probably work best alone because that is what he is used to and thus feel comfortable doing. It is most effective that way at the present. Not that he could change in time or whenever he wishes. Just look what he did with the KQ source. Anytime soon we will have a Linux port! *holds his thumbs (hard)*