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[sphr]

@ToadyOne

I'm a professional software/system designer/developer, looking for some non-work related stuff to remind me of the days where I program for fun.  (yes.. *sigh* "professional programming" (meaning doing it for money's sake) is not always fun (coz you have to at times give in to the people who gives you the money, even though you knew it's a crappy idea) )

but enough of that...
I actually came across this game by accident (was trying to find some ascii art related stuff to remind me of the good'ol days...).  I've tried it and got immediately sucked in (I've always been a fan of simulators, and fortress mode seems to married the best of what I've liked about settlers/dungeon keeper/rpg and provide so much more).  It interests me so much that I had to ask here if I can join in the development if possible.  Coding great stuff is its own reward in my opinion.

I know that some projects prefers to be kept single-developer, but If you are looking to build up a framework for co-developers so as to push the project on, can you contact me by email or pm?  If there's any interviews/tests, bring-it-on  

regards
sphr

Some basic info:

Current occupation : IT consultant/System Designer/Senior Software Developer.  The official one is IT consultant but it's only used during the worst part of my job: meeting clients    The latter parts are the one that I really do most of the time.
Domain : Architectural/In-Building visualization (3D) + related database/networking
Skills :
-Proficient in programming in c++, boost, MFC, other common libraries
-Proficient in system refactoring and software project development (i.e. basically breaking up old monolithic projects developed long time ago and putting them back together without losing the behavior but becomes more general and extensible.  Nowadays, it's more of designing a system such that it can be more easily worked on independently by junior programmers.... and making sure nobody !@#$!# do any long-duration damage to the repository. LOL )
-Proficient in data refactoring (redesigning old data to to be future proof.  my opinion of an ideal data design is that it should be extensible enough to last.... forever... ideally speaking)
-A little rusty but still manageable : openGL (gods... haven't done this since college days...)
-Other languages:, javascript/web development, python,  turbo pascal (like 15 years ago), eh.. basica/qbasic ? (like 20 years ago...)
-Other skills which may or may not be relevant : music background (used to play keyboard, knows a little flute and some ethnic string instruments.  Classical music theory),  experience in fine arts (though long time ago... pencil/charcoal/pastel, water color, acrylic, oil), gaming (plays good games. able to draw insights from them in the programmatic or design form)

[sinoth]

It's been discussed before, and since DF is Toady and ThreeToe's labor of love, the chances of them handing out the source is about as likely as an Elf liaison surviving a magma filled adamantine spike pit.

Also, kinda odd to post this publicly.  Seems it should be a personal discussion with Toady.  I fully understand the sentiment, however, as I sent in a letter much like this a while back.  The sheer scale and complexity of the game would make it a fun project to optimize and enhance.

I have a feeling, though, that it would take us the rest of our natural lifetime to decipher the code behind Dwarf Fortress.  No offense    I just bet Toady's programming style is extremely tailored to his taste and would destroy the mind of any mortal viewing it.  He is doing it for our safety, really.

Sinoth has acquiried item: Dwarf Fortress source code.
Sinoth has withdrawn from society.
Sinoth has gone stark raving mad!

[ November 19, 2007: Message edited by: sinoth ]

[sphr]

As a programmer myself, I can understand that perfectly, which is why I sort of post this as a just-in-case note.  

I'm just placing my bets on which is more important to the developers :
1) Keeping their full access to their code (note that this is not ownership..  e.g. In a company, programmers have access to the code, but the code is still owned and controlled by the company)
2) Wanting to push the development forward with greater speed (and the way to do that usually involve getting the basic framework right which enables modularity and parallel development)

But there's a lot of other non-code related things that can help if the parties are interested and not afraid to redo some problematic parts as early as possible (basically, speaking from real experience, it is better to overcome the reluctance to fix certain costly problems early before it becomes even more costly to fix should other things dependent on it gets created).  Things could involve system architecture (both the software system as well as the information system), data design (meta data, on-disk data, data/system forward/backward compatibility).  

Architecture is often get ignored in 1-developer sense (myself being guilty more than a few times).  2+developer can still make do if they rely on heavy communication.  But if ever somebody drop out or is required to take over another person's stuff, things can get ugly.  A proper architecture will ensure that at least the interface of the modules workings together are well defined and good practices will help to make the team more dynamically scaleable (e.g. outsource a module to somebody else without them having to access rest of the core code).

blah blah blah... the list goes on too long for me to want to talk about it at this pt..

As to why I'm posting it here, first and foremost, there isn't an explicit development website.  secondly, feel that it is easier for the "receiver" if I post instead of an email (which to me, seems more troublesome ... or it could be just me dislike receiving such things via email).  Lastly, I do know that the out front answer will negative.  So sort of like leaving a record here in-case and when they need it. (old emails gets lost in time).  Also, it seems that a thread makes a more convenient vehicle if there's any quick queries to request.

[Capntastic]

Toady's stated many times that he doesn't want to associate with anyone on a quasi-professional level with this project.   Visualize DF as a mirror of Toady and TT's souls that they are forging.

So far, the streamlined assemblyline process of him and TT coming up with ideas, Toady programming it, and the forums giving feedback have worked out swell.   There've been a few times when he's used a bit of help from other programmers, but that is only in special cases.

[Keilden]

I wonder if they could use people from the forum as voice actors if they implanted sounds. And i don't mean full voice just grunts and screams, or some random babbel.

[sphr]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>Toady's stated many times that he doesn't want to associate with anyone on a quasi-professional level with this project.   Visualize DF as a mirror of Toady and TT's souls that they are forging.

So far, the streamlined assemblyline process of him and TT coming up with ideas, Toady programming it, and the forums giving feedback have worked out swell.   There've been a few times when he's used a bit of help from other programmers, but that is only in special cases.</STRONG>

I don't quite get "quasi-professional" part, but that's not very important.  I do get the idea seems to be a "no".

All in all, there's nothing wrong with the current process if the devs are ok.  what I put here is just an offer to help IF THEY NEED IT.  The offer of help is mine to make, but it is their say since they own and control the project.  I'm ok with no    It's not like I'll threaten anybody with a dwarf-naping or anything ... LOL. Besides, as a professional looking for some non-professional hobby outside work, I'm sure I'll find something else to do and won't go into melancholia-till-death just because I failed my strange mood.... being a non-dwarf... or maybe dwarves need to invent computers and install "Programmer" as a new profession...... eeeuuuuu *Aghasted at self for even thinking such a thing*

Then dwarves will need new resource : CAFFEINE for the new "workshop"...

Programming : "Turning Caffeine into Code".

[Tracker]

We would always like some help with creating utilities and mods!

[TheTerminator97]

well then don't associate on the "quasi-professional" level you faggots. just like chill and hang out and smoke some dope then hurry up on the fucking game.

[Skyrage]

quote:Originally posted by TheTerminator97:
<STRONG>well then don't associate on the "quasi-professional" level you faggots. just like chill and hang out and smoke some dope then hurry up on the fucking game.</STRONG>

I thought that this game was too complex to attract these kind of people.

Guess I was wrong.

[Arkan15]

quote:Originally posted by Skyrage:
<STRONG>

I thought that this game was too complex to attract these kind of people.

Guess I was wrong.</STRONG>

Nothing is idiot-proof. Have murphy's laws taught you nothing?

[PTTG??]

quote:Originally posted by TheTerminator97:
<STRONG>well then don't associate on the "quasi-professional" level you faggots. just like chill and hang out and smoke some dope then hurry up on the fucking game.</STRONG>

AHH! Gary's Back!!

[Toady One]

TheTerminator97 has been fired.

But yeah, I don't want to work with anybody.  I say quasi-professional because being part of a B12 collaboration isn't technically a job but it would feel like one to me.

[Teldin]

If I were making $1000-$3000 a month purely off programming I think I wouldn't mind if it felt like a job or not.  

Just kiddin Toady! Don't fire me!

[Skyrage]

quote:Originally posted by Arkan15:
<STRONG>

Nothing is idiot-proof. Have murphy's laws taught you nothing?</STRONG>

I'm ashamed  

[sphr]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>TheTerminator97 has been fired.

But yeah, I don't want to work with anybody.  I say quasi-professional because being part of a B12 collaboration isn't technically a job but it would feel like one to me.</STRONG>

Hmm. I think I understand.  Given that I came here originally to get AWAY from my job, it wouldn't work if it starts to feel like work again...   all in all, here's the important points.

1) Great job!  More than just on the game itself.  Given technical background, I can sort appreciate the technical challenges you have to overcome.

2) My offer of help stands till I get too busy again.  Don't just mean coding. Feel free to approach me to try to help with anything other than coding.  I am somewhat versed in most computer science discipline and interested in other stuff that will bore most people to tears (computational topology anyone?), and I welcome any sort of discussions of technical nature.  May not be of help, but then again, I find that sometimes, simply able to discuss something with another person sometimes allows me to come to a conclusion simply becos things are forced to organize themselves as I tried to present it to the other party.

3) As Tracker has pointed out, another possible way I can "help" is by writing tools and stuff, but a lot of it depends on the main program.  Was hoping that there will be a better way than just memory poking, which will break as soon as the binary changes (code space change, data structure change etc).  If there is some external hooks possible, a more consistent and safe toolsets could be developed (e.g. app mounts services which provides ways of retrieving and setting non-privileged operations.  e.g. of non-privileged operations == anything that the user can do NORMALLY in a game.  e.g. of privileged operations == system actions which means anything can be done).  But this is just some idea for the future for now.

P.S. Just as a query, what are the chances of seperating the simulation engine away from the interface so that the interface can potentially be improved upon by another person while you concentrate on the engine features?

regards
sphr