Topic: Masterwork mod vivisection (Read 14140 times)

Tierre · « **Reply #60 on:** July 24, 2012, 07:34:56 am »

Ok - destroyer buildings on the line now:)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now the problem - stone smasher is useless..... it doesn't have any reactions at all. Guess it was depricated at some time but still should be deleted then. All other things are pretty self-explanatory.

Edit 26/07/2012 - 2 reactions are only in entity and nowhere to be found in reactions - burn_corps is unnecessary with destroy_mb_corpse. Also charcoal_burning reactions have nothing to do with crematorium but are in that part of the entity.

Tierre · « **Reply #61 on:** July 24, 2012, 07:45:03 am »

And now thatchery

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ok - the problems now. There is no such toy as thatch doll (though it can be a good idea to make such a doll for black magic rituals:) ). Then reactions of making grass into wicker can be mightily simplified by using reaction_class in plants (i think they should accept it). Also maybe to make less different materials it is a good idea to make a wicker material less heavy (to 200) and get wicker from that material insted of plant - so it will be more plain but also will use less micromanagement. Although if we use 1 reactions for all plants - this will make it into quite more difficult task to decide which plants go into thatchry. But this way you can add wickery reaction to a lot of Flora and Fauna mod plants which are acceptable as thatchery raw material. Also please note that as of 1.9.4 thatch bins are very light (like featherwood) instead of usual thatch bin 5 times HEAVIER than oak:) My comments helped this and that's cool.
And next post i will delve into spawning sustem and that will take some time to better understand the system myself and get my notes clear.

edit 26/07/2012 - papyrus from 1 plant of any type is a bit questionable:)

orius · « **Reply #62 on:** July 24, 2012, 04:46:37 pm »

Ah, the fish farm! I was going to ask if any of that was tied in with other parts of Masterwork, it looked like a useful building, particularly since it's possible to wipe out fish stocks on a map and some maps are pretty inconvenient for fishing. Haven't gotten around to testing it though, it took forever to make the clear glass blocks for it, my glass production got snarled up somewhere.

The net breaking isn't a big deal, I figure it's to simulate it getting ripped beyond usefulness or something. Boulders for its construction maybe is a bit overkill, they're probably supposed to be weights, but with rocks slowing down dorfs now, maybe using bocks rather than boulders might be a bit better.

Meph · « **Reply #63 on:** July 24, 2012, 05:21:50 pm »

Good idea. The update with the weights and 25% droprate really messed some balancing up. They should be stones tied to it, as weights to make the net sink.

@tierre: I am curious about your next post, because the system is complex and not very neat... stolen mostly from LFR... I made my own one before, but only created friendly units, got fed up with it, deleted it. Then narhiril released it with friendly units... didnt have the patience to remake my version of it, but I know the current one can be made a lot better.

Tierre · « **Reply #64 on:** July 24, 2012, 11:43:27 pm »

Well those boulders are why i said that their rate of broking is a bit fast. I mean - you lost half a boulder each time (10% t olose net and 5 boulders to do it). Might be better to either slow it to 1 boulder per net (cause it is a VERY big net with 5 boulders - how can it fit into little fishing pond) or make it at least 95-98% of success retrieving it.
No comment on my proposals for fishing farm in previous posts?

I think my next post will go to explain what changed in 1.9.4 and only then i will go for spawn system. And its really taking time to understand what is where:) Like why do you need bodyplans on spawn_two, spawn_three and spawn_five - just for the future?

orius · « **Reply #65 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:16:32 am »

Comceptually, blocks should be fine, plus you can store more nearby in case the net needs to get repaired. The net needs weights on it, but huge boulders are overkill; you're trying to catch fish, not send someone to sleep with them.

Tierre · « **Reply #66 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:51:50 am »

Summary - instead of 5 boulders - use 4 blocks. Maybe raise success rate of net fishing to 95.

Firehawk45 · « **Reply #67 on:** July 25, 2012, 07:35:18 am »

Quote from: orius on July 25, 2012, 05:16:32 am

Comceptually, blocks should be fine, plus you can store more nearby in case the net needs to get repaired. The net needs weights on it, but huge boulders are overkill; you're trying to catch fish, not send someone to sleep with them.

"urist, could you explain to me how exactly the mayor got caught in that fish net and drowned in a clear glass box in one of the most trafficed areas of the fort?"

How about making the broken net an item which is easier to repair? automatic job order and you can go fishing all the time, well, after you got the drowned mayor out of the tank of course, dwarfen mafia, you have to love them.

Meph · « **Reply #68 on:** July 25, 2012, 01:03:01 pm »

I cant do IF/ELSE stuff. So a "if nets break, create broken net, else create net" isnt possible. But I like the idea.

Sorry tierre, I didnt see the post about it on the last page, only opened this one. But I like the block idea instead of boulders. The entire building is completely unbalanced, I would love to make it need actual water and live caught/bought fish to build. Mh... I was about the say that this is sadly impossible, but I am sometimes very stupid. I can just make a toy/tool, call it "Aquarium full of live fish" and let you buy it from traders. Problem solved.

It is just that this building creates food out of nothing, even deep below the earth on a desert map. I wanted to give fish workers something to do, but the balancing is hard, because the fishfarm will never run out of fish.

I should probably just make it very cheap/easy to fish there, but give it a 5% successrate or so.. more realistic, at least concerning fishing itself. Guy stands there for 1 hour, catches 1 fish. ^^

If you want to give a more balanced version a try, go ahead. I also thought the Magma Fish Farm would spawn very expensive firefish and magmacrabs and whatnot, so people build fishfarms deep below underground next to the magma sea. I like the idea

Tierre · « **Reply #69 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:17:11 am »

##################################
###### PATCH 1.9.4 ######
##################################
Let's delve into it a little:) So that we can understand what things have changed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notes:

for alchemy - get mortar and pestle into reagents for building

why do you need parchment now? Delete it.

Also on a note - i found this while browsing files:
blood meatl - density 200000 is it ok? Not too heavy? For a blood metal:) Drow would be pretty slow hehehe
youth fountain stone - 2255520 - that can even outreach the integer. Not too shabby:) Is it normal? Or just random digit tapping?

idea
thatchery - wicker shields - widely used all around the world:) May be able to do a shield with no access to wood or ores with only a farm plot, but very VERY weak, I think thatchery should be called wickery, and last one but the most important - use wickery material instead of plant material. And make the one used for blocks lighter and less metal like:)

all the library book craft system - i think it is more realistic to make it all another way. Different books have different number of pages and have different value and so will be differently decoraed (it is a medieval world after all). So we make paper from wood, plants (with proper reaction_class or it is really strange) or leather. But it makes 1 thing - paper (less items is good for fps). Then there is no cover book or anything. We change the book scribing reactions - so instead of using a blank book (how did you know how many pages you would need anyway) we use a new reaction - 5-25 paper pages (depending on skill this book is about - medicine tomes are larger than tomes about farming or wood cutting), ink, plus 1 wood and 1 leather for cover for easy books or wood and bronze and1 cut gem for more difficult books and then go up to using gold and 5 cut gems. Then it will make books as easy to make as previously but will make booksmor evaluable and represent how important this skill is. That's my opinion proposition on this.

Meph · « **Reply #70 on:** July 26, 2012, 10:21:29 am »

Just a quick comment:

Quote

- Made books easier.- i don't really see how making 2 new materials and adding 5 new reactions is making it easier:)

People did not use the libraries a lot, since you needed ink, leather, and wood, and then assemble it all, and then write a book. Now, you can have 3 alternate ways. It is a very simple, quick fix, because several people have talked about it. In future I want to make books hard to make, but give a big training effect, not like it currently is. Ideally it should be like this: Work hard to get everything together, produce one book, read book, raise the skill 1 or 2 levels. Book gets used up in the reaction.

Tierre · « **Reply #71 on:** July 26, 2012, 11:52:02 am »

Well i wrote that i think of making a book - my way uses same reagents as yours and have same number of steps, just uses more reagents and is more unique on each book.
Nothing else to comment on my last post?

Well this thread is a bit like having fun with RAWs to myself:) So no complaints (almost

).

Also is it possible to add reaction class to plants? It would make thatchery better if it is possible.

Meph · « **Reply #72 on:** July 26, 2012, 12:00:43 pm »

Quote

Also is it possible to add reaction class to plants? It would make thatchery better if it is possible.

Yeah, sure, thats how they work anyway... the milling and brewing and so forth...

Not much laptop battery, so no more comments on your previous post. yet.

Tierre · « **Reply #73 on:** July 26, 2012, 02:41:20 pm »

Then thatchery should use reaction class - this way you have only 1 reaction to make wicker and you can use as many Flora and Fauna plants as you like. Also you can make a reaction class to papyrus and papyrus like plants - so that you won't make a papyrus from strawberry bush - that's really insane:)

edit - couldn't test anything today:( Got 38 degrees Celsium temperature on me:( Somehow caught an infection and now all my muscles are aching and it is very hard to make myself do anything - even eat. I will make those tests with producing magma tomorrow, i hope:)

Tierre · « **Reply #74 on:** July 28, 2012, 12:48:15 pm »

OK. Now some ideas about remaking fishing pool. No reactions yet - just raw idea of how to remake it.
First of all - you can't just a little pool and it will give you a lot of fish. For that i think you should add a workshop of big dimensions (7*7 with 5*5 pool in the center and maybe a lot of buckets with water for reagent... though won't work robably). This will use a fishinl pole (made in another building or maybe in it) and will catch cave fish (it is below ground anyway) with low probability. 1% with 99% of fishing pole remaining intact. But you will need some kind of fish food for that - prepared here from .... that's to think a little. Might use flour, or just a spade to dig up some worms. Needs balancing. So it uses this food (also need balancing to make it use less food than you get but only marginally). You can use a fish LURE made from silver or gold or copper (all the shiny metals). It will have 5% probability to be lost but will get you fish with 5% probability - needs balancing on how much metal lost is ok for hiw much fish you got. Of course all of thise reactions use fish food. Also mught make different reactions for different lures (like the best is aluminum and the worst is copper) but it will make a lot of reactions and i am not sure if this is worth it. Another set of reactios for this thing is to make carnivore fish food from vermin remains or fish and let's you catch BIG fish. This will make your fishing pole break with 20% chance (or maybe use more expensive pole from metal with lesser chance to break) and you have to use this fish food and a lure (with even greater chance to loose it) but the catch is a fish with bigger size....... the problem is it will not get you more food - as you got that stack of 1 fish and it makes +1 prepared food, so it is not balanced. But you can make it that reaction product is actually a stack of fish meat (like you already cleaned it) - then it's worth it. But a lot of balancing here. Also i know that big fish won't be in a pong 5*5 but... it sound cool.

Another building is fish farm. This one is more sophisticated. It uses green glass boxes (cause they are the easiest to produce in case of some desert fort with no food supply at all) to actually grow fish.So you make a reaction to use some fish food (again can be the same from the pond or to use another one made from vermins, fish, flour, or even seaweeds made in another reatcion) and use also a green glass box and reaction fills it with custom liquid called ...fish water or something. And this water goes to box. Then you make a rection to use that water in a container as a reagent (this needs a lot of testing) and make you 100% chance to catch a fish or even a stack of it. Now it is important to make it a long process - you said it is possible Meph. Also you can get a stack of raw fish or make a live fish (which makes more sense - you get a reaction with a box of water and get a product box of water and fish in it:) btw needs testing if 3000 liquid:water will go to the box and a fish too:) ). Also you can add some experimental reactios to this building - like making some alchemic reagents from fish here and such.

So that's my raw thought about remaking of fish pool:)

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Author Topic: Masterwork mod vivisection (Read 14140 times)

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

orius

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Meph

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

orius

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Firehawk45

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Meph

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Meph

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Meph

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection

Tierre

Re: Masterwork mod vivisection