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Voting closed: February 01, 2012, 06:12:51 am

[MetalSlimeHunt]

For the record, why the hell does Paradox label the unindustrialized nations "uncivilized"? Victoria 2 itself states that the difference between "civilized" and "uncivilized" nations is abandoning traditional society and jumping on the Industrial Revolution bandwagon, so why not call them "industrialized" and "unindustrialized" or "traditionalist"? Or just copy what they did in EU3 with the Westernization system, that had an excellent handling of differing technological levels and development.

[SethCreiyd]

Yeah, Eu3 had the better system, and I don't really know why they didn't carry it over in some way instead of choosing this stasis-until-status route.  It's not like they try to hide re-using the Clausewitz engine for all their games, I doubt any fans would resent the re-use of successful mechanics.

For the Uncivilized thing, to play devil's advocate, I suppose one could say that Westernization need not automatically lead to industry (though avoiding it would be a deeply questionable game strategy in most cases).  Paradox did change 'Uncivilized' to 'Primitive' for AHD which I suppose they figured was better, so they're at least aware of the contention there.

[Boksi]

Well, from a Victorian point of view, non-industrialized nations were primitive and uncivilized. And it was the White Man's Burden to bring civilization to those dark places, even if they had to shoot one or two or six hundred rowdy natives. Those primitive fools simply don't know any better. Oh, and they obviously have nothing to do with all those natural resources, better put them to some good use.

[SethCreiyd]

^ Replace 'hundred' with 'thousand' and you're on the pulse.  Becoming a colonial protectorate was alike to paying the Mafia protection money.  And Teddy Roosevelt wrote some pretty distasteful stuff regarding the obligation of the superior "civilized" races to take control of land inhabited by tribal peoples.

The point is a good one, though I'd say the labels aren't applied very well (it shouldn't be applied to non-tribal states with diplomatic functions).   "Undeveloped Nation" would have been my preference.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Paradox has never really found a good way to deal with representing tribal nations. EU3 did it best, Victoria's is just lazy about it.

[chronicfc]

A nice touch I realised was that I got an event where some people in my Moroccan colony were really patriotic, and loved the life under my rule. The only problem was they said they were "born and raised" in my colony under my rule, and I'm fairly certain I had only held the colony for a maximum of 5-10 years. I thought Vic could have at least implemented a time limit for that event.