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[rephikul]

I LOVE playing as humans and above ground...MUCH more challenging. I have been waiting for a good human mod for some time and would love to see this!

I have that playable elves, how did that fair? They arent human but they are above ground.

[Zorromorph]

Completely restricting mining seems rather steep even for a human civ, but that's just my personal view. Either way, I can't wait to see how this mod turns out!

Thanks!  I don't have the details of it worked out completely yet, but at this point my intention(i'm not entirely sure it's completely possible to implement) is that the priests etc. control the flow of resources which are the 'finer' things in life(stone, metal ores, etc.).  So mining is there, but not in the traditional sense of tunnelling underground to get it.  A certain amount of 'devoted deeds'(i.e, worshipping at a shrine, etc.) would be required in order to get the iron-fisted ecclesiastical authorities to acquire additional materials. 

I could always making a version permitting 'traditional' mining, and probably will, but it's hard for me to imagine why someone would want to play that version(other mods would probably be better for that playstyle).  It would defeat the purpose of major elements of Theocracy. 

[dennislp3]

I LOVE playing as humans and above ground...MUCH more challenging. I have been waiting for a good human mod for some time and would love to see this!

I have that playable elves, how did that fair? They arent human but they are above ground.

That is challenging indeed...and it surprisingly played into my standard playstyle well...I RARELY mine my first metals...I usually trade for Iron or whatever else with the first caravan (and melt down like objects) to make my weapons...since the elves cant smith or whatever I just bought the stuff like I usually do.

The reason I trade without mining and making my own stuff early is usually cause I am busy cutting down forests and making a wooden fortress ASAP (I also play with no or minimal traps and I am always accessible).

Building above ground is great for slowing down the whole process and stretching the game out...I also play with a pop cap of around 30 and make natural births important and each dwarf/elf/human super important. Obviously that's a bit to "purist" or slow for many people...

[Sarlare]

Completely restricting mining seems rather steep even for a human civ, but that's just my personal view. Either way, I can't wait to see how this mod turns out!

Thanks!  I don't have the details of it worked out completely yet, but at this point my intention(i'm not entirely sure it's completely possible to implement) is that the priests etc. control the flow of resources which are the 'finer' things in life(stone, metal ores, etc.).  So mining is there, but not in the traditional sense of tunnelling underground to get it.  A certain amount of 'devoted deeds'(i.e, worshipping at a shrine, etc.) would be required in order to get the iron-fisted ecclesiastical authorities to acquire additional materials. 

I could always making a version permitting 'traditional' mining, and probably will, but it's hard for me to imagine why someone would want to play that version(other mods would probably be better for that playstyle).  It would defeat the purpose of major elements of Theocracy.

Well I certainly wouldn't want you to deviate from the original mod idea. I'm not entirely sure how the ecclesiastical figures would distribute said resources personally...perhaps you can "sacrifice" various items (exotic goods, foodstuffs, live animals) at some sort of altar workshop? Then said altar has a chance of giving you an item affiliated with the god it pays homage to. Not the best implementation, but I figured it's a start. Some of the veteran modders might offer words of wisdom in the matter as well

[Zorromorph]

Yeah, still working that out -- and the mining issue is still up in the air a bit anyway.  So feel free to fire away if you think of anything cool

[Meph]

My idea would be:

Church owned workshop. Produce a lot of stuff, but you need "blessings"

Blessings are custom items that are produced by praying/sacrifices/oter religious stuff.

For every blessing that your civilian low born peasant gets, he can go to the church and get an item, for building, weapons, armor, whatever.

I allow treecutting, but no mining.

Make a simple caste system, with a low chance for clerkymen/holymen/preachers/whatever. Allow certain workshops/reactions only to those highborn/religious people.

Make a reaction called "to sourge/whip yourself"
Gives blessings
Might create a boiling stone with the syndrome of bleeding (minor) high chance
Might create a boiling stone with the syndrome of bleeding (major) low chance
uses the whip skill

Rename the profession name for whip user to Flagellant.
You have now religious dwarves that whip themselves to purge sins, and train their weaponskill at the same time. With this you can make a fanatic/zealot milita of whip users.

[Zorromorph]

Thanks Meph. 

You hit on one thing that I was going to ask you a question about:  the possibility of restricting workshops to only certain 'people'.  You seem to imply that this is possible at least with making them part of a caste. 

Is it also possible, if you know, to limit use of a workshop to those of a particular noble office?  If so, how would I go about doing that?

[Meph]

I never did it, but i remembered reading about it in the DFA manual. The author uses two settings for that.

He splits his dwarves into holy and other classes.
Holy has:[SKILL_LEARN_RATE:ALCHEMY:150] and natural skill alchemy 5

All other have: [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:ALCHEMY:0] (this means they cant learn it at all)

He also added boilding stones with a deadly syndrome to the "holy" reactions. He uses syn_affected_class for all normal dwarves, and syn_immune for the holy caste. This way everyone who is not member of the holy cast would die when using the workshop.

All workshops use alchemy of course, to aviod random deaths.

[Sarlare]

I never did it, but i remembered reading about it in the DFA manual. The author uses two settings for that.

He splits his dwarves into holy and other classes.
Holy has:[SKILL_LEARN_RATE:ALCHEMY:150] and natural skill alchemy 5

All other have: [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:ALCHEMY:0] (this means they cant learn it at all)

He also added boilding stones with a deadly syndrome to the "holy" reactions. He uses syn_affected_class for all normal dwarves, and syn_immune for the holy caste. This way everyone who is not member of the holy cast would die when using the workshop.

All workshops use alchemy of course, to aviod random deaths.

So how is the syndrome transferred to the citizen exactly? I'm curious as a dabbling modder myself.

[Meph]

It creates a stone with a syndrome. The stone has a boiling point X. The stone has a fixed temperatur of X+1. As soon as the stone is created, it boils away, into gas. The dwarf breathes in the gas, and is affected. Only works with temperature on though.

[Zorromorph]

Working on nobles atm -- mostly done.  But I'm curious if anyone has any good name suggestions for a few.  It would probably be useful for me to mention the structure right now.  Feel free to offer any suggestion changes(and reasons) to this as well:

STARTING NOBLES

** Expedition Leader(does some of everything.  Got rid of most of the starting nobles by folding their responsibilities into this one or moving them to a later pop. requirement)
** Medic(aka Chief Medical Dwarf)

@ POPULATION=15

** Expedition Leader becomes Elder
** Treasurer becomes available, taking over Bookkeeping and Trade duties. 
** Sheriff becomes available, same as default role.
** Medic becomes Senior Doctor

@ POPULATION = 50

** Elder becomes High Priest.  High Priest appoints Priests(as many as desired ATM), who take care of the consoling of workers duty. 
** Sheriff becomes Senior Inquisitor
** Senior Doctor becomes Priest of Healing

@ POPULATION = 125

** High Priest becomes Bishop(and later on, Cardinal)
** Senior Inquisitor becomes Grand Inquisitor
** Priest of Healing becomes High Priest of Healing
** Treasurer becomes High Priest of Finance

Names suggestions would be desired for the unfinished:  Hammerer, Manager, Militia Captain, Militia Commander. 

Note:  All nobles are appointed, none elected. 

[Meph]

Hammerer, Manager, Militia Captain, Militia Commander.

Hammerer: Inquisitor
Manager: Manager
Militia Commander: High Templar
Militia Captian: Zealots (or more Templars)

For the others check the catholic church, you could use a (Sub-)Prior for example, as expedition leader...

[Sarlare]

You could replace the sheriff title with "Reeve". "Beadle" might be a suiting replacement for the manager title as well.

I agree with Meph on having the expedition leader title being changed, it does seem out of place for the theme.

[dennislp3]

Yeah Hammerer needs to be inquisitor and sheriff should be enforcer

The description of it in the real catholic church (Papal Enforcer)
It's probably the second-most powerful Vatican office - prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the head of the Vatican department historically known as the Office of the Holy Inquisition


Manager should be "Prefect"
Prefect (from the Latin praefectus, perfect participle of praeficere: "make in front", i.e., put in charge) is a magisterial title of varying definition.

I like the High Templar/Templar titles...zealots sound disorderly and more like...zealous peasants lol

[darkflagrance]

If we're delving into latin offices, the ancient Roman office of Censor might be appropriate to replace the Bookkeeper.

The Censor was the official in charge of counting the people and upholding public morality. It seems perfect for a theocracy.