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[Gentlefish]

Well I flushed my game and started a new character. First planet I got is one with hail storms. I like them.

[Tarran]

And he is definitely tier 4?

I can neither answer that, nor do I remember how long it took me personally, but I'm pretty sure if you're going for a speedrun 45 hours is plenty of time to reach tier 4, if you ignore building a house and such.

Starbound is slow, but I don't remember it being THAT slow.

[Neonivek]

And he is definitely tier 4?

I can neither answer that, nor do I remember how long it took me personally, but I'm pretty sure if you're going for a speedrun 45 hours is plenty of time to reach tier 4, if you ignore building a house and such.

Starbound is slow, but I don't remember it being THAT slow.

Yeah but speed running without deep diving by only making quarries... That makes me wonder if 45 hours is enough.

[Sean Mirrsen]

And he is definitely tier 4?

I can neither answer that, nor do I remember how long it took me personally, but I'm pretty sure if you're going for a speedrun 45 hours is plenty of time to reach tier 4, if you ignore building a house and such.

Starbound is slow, but I don't remember it being THAT slow.

Yeah but speed running without deep diving by only making quarries... That makes me wonder if 45 hours is enough.

You are for some reason assuming I've ever gone directly for the endgame. I don't play the game to end it, I'm playing to have fun. ^_^
I think the furthest I ever got in the progression was the omnicidal robot. New versions kept coming out and I kept restarting the game from the beginning, but I haven't ever gotten to whatever the next boss is (some kind of dragon?). Think of that what you will.

And no, I don't "only" strip-mine. I also go spelunking. I strip-mine the surface layers if I really need to stay around for some reason, but mostly I just look for fuel and interesting places to visit. Progressing through the game is a fairly low priority for me.

[Neonivek]

the death penalties are not made for you.

But I'll put it to you this way Sean... 45 hours and you are not at Tier 4.

[Sean Mirrsen]

But I'll put it to you this way Sean... 45 hours and you are not at Tier 4.

Why would I want to be?

[Neonivek]

But I'll put it to you this way Sean... 45 hours and you are not at Tier 4.

Why would I want to be?

Because you commented that my criticisms were invalid... well congratulations you don't even attempt to play the game.

always played it on mediumcore. Gotta learn to retreat and maneuver. It's the same thing here, just learn to know when to pull out, and be careful when exploring.
You're forgetting that you have it better in Starbound because you have a tele-out from any open space on the surface from the get-go, and you have free health regeneration services from the get-go. Whereas in Terraria you need to find a mirror for the tele-out, and defeat at least one boss (and construct a small town) for the Nurse NPC (or rely on found/made potions).

Congratulations you don't take real risks.

This is like me complaining that it takes too long to grind for something because of another feature of the game and someone goes "Heck no, I don't even play the game to grind. I play FOR the grinding itself!"

I mean I played for 22 hours, only got to tier 3... and I explored the heck out of planets... mostly because you have to. And WOW would it suck to do that now that wood is so energy inefficient.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Because you commented that my criticisms were invalid... well congratulations you don't even attempt to play the game.

Sorry, but I don't attempt to beat the game. Your criticisms are no more or less valid regardless of how I choose to play. I've played on the "lose everything on death" difficulty level in Terraria, and I will play on that level here, because that makes sense to me. Life is already way too cheap in these games, so this helps practice being cautious.

[Neonivek]

Because you commented that my criticisms were invalid... well congratulations you don't even attempt to play the game.

Sorry, but I don't attempt to beat the game. Your criticisms are no more or less valid regardless of how I choose to play. I've played on the "lose everything on death" difficulty level in Terraria, and I will play on that level here, because that makes sense to me. Life is already way too cheap in these games, so this helps practice being cautious.

Games have an implied path of advancement.

If you are not going on that path and are instead doing something else... then why are you making any statements on that nature?

"Why don't people play on harder difficulty, the penalty isn't that harsh"

[Tiruin]

Because you commented that my criticisms were invalid... well congratulations you don't even attempt to play the game.

Sorry, but I don't attempt to beat the game. Your criticisms are no more or less valid regardless of how I choose to play. I've played on the "lose everything on death" difficulty level in Terraria, and I will play on that level here, because that makes sense to me. Life is already way too cheap in these games, so this helps practice being cautious.

Games have an implied path of advancement.

The player has an implied choice on how to advance.

[Neonivek]

Because you commented that my criticisms were invalid... well congratulations you don't even attempt to play the game.

Sorry, but I don't attempt to beat the game. Your criticisms are no more or less valid regardless of how I choose to play. I've played on the "lose everything on death" difficulty level in Terraria, and I will play on that level here, because that makes sense to me. Life is already way too cheap in these games, so this helps practice being cautious.

Games have an implied path of advancement.

The player has an implied choice on how to advance.

Its not a choice JUST yet...

It isn't a choice when the two options are either to go along that path or... not

My point isn't the superiority of one way to play the game over the other... or that Sean is bastardizing the game or not. (He isn't... It is a perfectly fine way to play.)

It is that criticizing things like death penalties on the basis of "Well I don't even play the game to play the game, I make my own fun" to the extent where you are arguing that losing all your ores as "typical" is fine... Is just flabbergasting.

or even ANY comment on how long the game is... when you aren't even affected by game length. Well unless you are speaking on a objective viewpoint (I am not someone who believes that only people who experience something can comment on it).

----

But I'll put it to you this way...

If you ARE trying to play the game for advancement the conditions for advancing through the game only increases in length and what you have to go through in order to do it.

The first tier is the fastest and the first time you play it is probably going to take hours and you can easily just lose against the boss and need to grind for an additional hour.

The only way to shorten the time is to either delve into the deep layers, in which case it is a one way trip for the most part because setting yourself up would add an extra hour and you don't get proper spelunking gear until later, so losing your ores is a harsh penalty for that. Especially if you want better picks to mine faster.

Then after that you have to collect a lot of wood and Coal. Your goal is then to explore a bunch of planets in order to collect equipment so you can defeat your current tier.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Congratulations you don't take real risks.

What's the point of taking risks that you don't have to?

This is like me complaining that it takes too long to grind for something because of another feature of the game and someone goes "Heck no, I don't even play the game to grind. I play FOR the grinding itself!"

Well, in this case you have "I don't notice the grind because I just play the game". I mean seriously, it's like you never played a well-designed JRPG in your life. Take Phantasy Star IV - random encounters up the wazoo, every step of the way from one place to another. And completing quests and missions involves a lot of getting from one place to another, so you never spend time "grinding" - you're just fighting your way through the questline, and you're never hideously understrength to tackle a given obstacle in your path. Unlike, say Phantasy Star II...

I mean I played for 22 hours, only got to tier 3... and I explored the heck out of planets... mostly because you have to. And WOW would it suck to do that now that wood is so energy inefficient.

And now imagine how it would suck to do that using only coal you mine out, found as you wander around caves and look out for mineral clusters. I'm sure it would suck much more if you were actually in the caves for that single purpose.

It's not a question of making your own fun. It's a matter of being aware of what troubles you and whether the source of that is the game, or merely how you play it. If you're regularly losing massive amounts of ore to dying in the hellish depths of Delta Brandywine Jugular IV, perhaps you should consider stomping down on your own sense of curiosity and strife and pull out with what you have before you lose it to another needless risk?

[Neonivek]

Well, in this case you have "I don't notice the grind because I just play the game". I mean seriously, it's like you never played a well-designed JRPG in your life. Take Phantasy Star IV - random encounters up the wazoo, every step of the way from one place to another. And completing quests and missions involves a lot of getting from one place to another, so you never spend time "grinding" - you're just fighting your way through the questline, and you're never hideously understrength to tackle a given obstacle in your path. Unlike, say Phantasy Star II...

Usually that is usually for padding and indeed I've played games that did it well and games that did it badly (USUALLY by making the grind the game... Dang do I wish The Last Remnant was a better game... they were really onto something).

I actually like a bit of grind in a game (though I usually try to blitz an RPG near the end apparently... probably because that is when the story gets intense.). I just find Starbounds to be a bit too much, and mostly boring. There are plenty of games longer than starbound (I probably could have got to tier 4 in 32 hours), but they have a lot of content along the way to keep you interested.

Mind you the opposite has problems too... (Having everything from the start, makes things get boring later)

It's not a question of making your own fun. It's a matter of being aware of what troubles you and whether the source of that is the game, or merely how you play it. If you're regularly losing massive amounts of ore to dying in the hellish depths of Delta Brandywine Jugular IV, perhaps you should consider stomping down on your own sense of curiosity and strife and pull out with what you have before you lose it to another needless risk?

To an extent, I mean you are right from a practical scale.

Yet they should still give you the tools to make those risks feasible without requiring you to... for example... build a shaft for every planet you attempt this on.

Each Tier should take long enough, if you are gunning for it, to give you a taste for the themes and challenges for that tier, as well as teach you the new aspects of the game one by one... before making way for the boss. While also long enough that if you are taking your time, you should still stumble upon the tools you need to advance while also getting a bit more out of the experience.

My complaint is if you are honestly attempting a tier the ONLY way to advance before the tier gets stale is to immediately drop into the depths of hell (or Asteroids, I keep hearing they are mineral rich) so you can find minerals in abundance... or Deserts. While if you are taking your time, it still takes way too long.

Edit: I did delete a rant here, mostly because I didn't want to throw this thread into more hostility. It did directly respond to Naxza

[Sergarr]

Why does that game have tiers anyway? Are they meaningfully different from each other, or are they just numerically different?

[Neonivek]

Why does that game have tiers anyway? Are they meaningfully different from each other, or are they just numerically different?

Each tier opens up a new element of the game.

For example you get mods in tier 2, guns in tier 3 (But you can find earlier ones), and stuff.

Basically each tier has more and more content, challenges, and opens up more of the story and upgrades.

As well enemies start having different and more diverse movesets (so the game gets more interesting), and certain things only appear at higher tiers. As well technology increases with the tiers, the higher you go the more high tech you get.

If I remember correctly the main reason I wanted to blitz through Starbound after my initial exploration phase wore off (mostly because DANG was there a lot of nothing in some of the most interesting locales... One which I won't spoil... but I wanted something out of it, but it was just set dressing. I was also stunned that there was very little I could do with the unique materials I found... I wanted poop armor) was because I wanted my guns or a proper bow (rather then the tool bow). Either way I did have a massive collection of objects.

I will say that the first boss is kind of unfair for new players. SURE I know how to fight that boss... but most players think the boss is meant to be fought with the bow.

The second time I tried to blitz through it was because I had to make a new character, because of the wipe, and wanted to get where I left off. It is always the 3rd tier that makes me just give up on advancement, because everything there takes soo much.