Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Reudh]

The major reason why people are lashing out is because there is no real forum to do this.

If you were banned for criticizing the game, you couldn't get unbanned, you couldn't discuss it, and anyone who brings it up or who does the same thing gets banned...

Banning dissenters? Well within their rights.

It is a terrible faux pas to do. It may be "within their rights" but it represents a fundamental lack of class.

Just because it is within someone's rights it doesn't mean it is "right". I had examples prepared, but I felt like it would give it a terrible tone to this conversation. (and I didn't want to equate this to something even more terrible).

As well remember... these aren't people who preordered or bought the game on goodwill. These people "funded" the game.

Funding doesn't give you a right to creative control.

[Neonivek]

Funding doesn't give you a right to creative control

Really? I had no idea. I honestly thought the world entirely changed because I wanted it to.

 

Facetious joke aside... The point was that respect is due. These aren't JUST your customer base, these are the people who basically funded your game. If they criticize you, take it. Does it mean you have to bow to their demands? no.

[The Darkling Wolf]

We're not asking for creative control, we're asking for them to acknowledge our complaints without thumbing their nose and blowing raspberries at us. I have no problem with them keeping the thing in, as you've said already it's easy to mod into something else anyway, it's the fact that people voiced their dislike of how stupid it looked at Chucklefish responded by making jokes about how every AI would be an anthropomorphic animal with breasts, started wearing the horse head masks in the update posts and inserted images of the AI blowing raspberries into the nightly builds.

So, rather than saying 'We see your complaints, but we're keeping it this way because it's our game and ultimately we get to decide' they said 'We're keeping it in because fuck you, nyeh nyeh nyeh!' Kind of leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for buying a dozen copies of the game for friends.

[Something Evil]

Funding doesn't give you a right to creative control.

On a moral level, it does. On a legal level, that's the entire point of shareholders.
Just to add things on top of a moral obligation to be open to feedback, they have the quasi-contractual obligation to do so based on their own promises.

Annoying sprite that's not even that bad anyway, besides being out of place for the Glitch? you can mod these things out in a matter of minutes...

It's not about the sprite itself, it's about the way they've reacted to negative feedback, with horsehead mask ingame assets (developed instead of, y'know, creating a less disagreeable alternative), derisive dev blog updates, letting mods antagonize the community, bans galore.

Facetious joke aside... The point was that respect is due. These aren't JUST your customer base, these are the people who basically funded your game. If they criticize you, take it. Does it mean you have to bow to their demands? no.

An excellent point. They could have simply said "We thought the reference to the horsehead meme was funny; apparently the community disagrees; we'll provide alternatives both for those who dislike it and for those who are fond of it."

But that would take a minimum of maturity and respect for their funders.

[Neonivek]

On a moral level, it does. On a legal level, that's the entire point of shareholders

To admit though in this case we use this format of funding so they have less responsibility to producers.

I wouldn't say funding gives you the right to creative control, so much that funding gives you the right that you be heard.

An excellent point. They could have simply said "We thought the reference to the horsehead meme was funny; apparently the community disagrees; we'll provide alternatives both for those who dislike it and for those who are fond of it."

Honestly, they could have said "We are going to do it anyway"... and it would have cheesed people off, but they would have got over it.

The issue that caused it is small (People thought something funny was distasteful and lame), the reason it blew up was because it was handled badly and without class (Bans and trolling) and could have EASILY been avoided. The worst part is, they have a PR manager! They have someone's whose only job is to deal with this sort of thing.

[Facekillz058]

Given that I have never played this game, I feel like I can give an objective enough judgment on the state of this thread.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The horse is dead, no need to keep beating it.

[Neonivek]

Then offer a new topic.

[The Darkling Wolf]

Given that I have never played this game, I feel like I can give an objective enough judgment on the state of this thread.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The horse is dead, no need to keep beating it.

Ok guys, this dude used big red text, I can now clearly see that we're in the wrong for trying to have a reasoned discussion. Let's all go do something else.

[Neonivek]

Well right now no one who is using this thread for Starbound gameplay discussion is complaining... no conversation on the gameplay has been derailed.

Right now the status of the game discussion is pretty much unopposed as far as the flow of conversation is concerned.

This just amounts to "I don't like this conversation. Stop it!... but I don't really have anything to talk about so bye, just stop talking while I am gone". Heck Facekillz outright states this. As well if people DID make a new thread called "The State of Starbound" people would complain that there are now two threads and they should take it to the normal Starbound thread.

Ok a gameplay wise the development has been rather slow, while the new attacks look interesting they don't seem to change up anything... and the new shield mechanics need work still as I dislike the ghosting aspect. I mean I understand there are limitations, but couldn't they have bullets bounce off the shield?

[Facekillz058]

It's not so much that I want reasoned discussion to stop, but I like to come to this thread to read about the game, and the last X pages have been about how horrible the mods are, or how questionable the methods in which they handle criticism are. It's not that conversations about the gameplay has been derailed, it's that they're being strangled by 50 posts of "I see how X and Y could have been handled better BUT CHUCKLEFISH FUCKED UP." I'm all for discussion, but this one has been going on for days, and hasn't really moved anywhere. My apologies if I soiled this most holy ground with my presence, so I'm out.

[Something Evil]

Given that I have never played this game, I feel like I can give an objective enough judgment on the state of this thread.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The horse is dead, no need to keep beating it.

Ok guys, this dude used big red text, I can now clearly see that we're in the wrong for trying to have a reasoned discussion. Let's all go do something else.

While I appreciate the joke, despite it having been made a thousand times before on the CF forums, the worst thing is, the horse is far from dead; It's not even an undead vampire unicorn because those are rideable.

The problem is the consistent mismanagement of their PR; the horsehead AI debacle is just a symptom. There's not announcing team changes, there's not replying to the inquiries that "Hey, my antivirus is picking up your files as containing a version of the ElDorado worm, what gives.", there's the out of control mods, there's antagonizing those discontent, there's milking what can be also seen by some as a lulzy joke, namely the rapefic, for sympathy after treating it as a joke the first time around (which goes to prove that a joke isn't necessarily in good taste), etc.

It's not so much that I want reasoned discussion to stop, but I like to come to this thread to read about the game, and the last X pages have been about how horrible the mods are, or how questionable the methods in which they handle criticism are. It's not that conversations about the gameplay has been derailed, it's that they're being strangled by 50 posts of "I see how X and Y could have been handled better BUT CHUCKLEFISH FUCKED UP." I'm all for discussion, but this one has been going on for days, and hasn't really moved anywhere. My apologies if I soiled this most holy ground with my presence, so I'm out.

Couldn't you have just stated "Okay, we get it, Chucklefish are horrible, let's discuss gameplay/lore/something else", instead of just being condescending?

[Arbinire]

I think one thing that everyone is kind of failing to see is that we all ultimately would love to see Starbound succeed and be a great game, whether or not it comes across as such in our comments.  We care enough about the product and it's production to have an emotional investment within it.  We also cared enough about the game to invest money into it in good faith knowing that it was an early access title and that paying into it would help keep production going.  You're right, having done so doesn't give us the right to change the creative concepts CF has for the game, but it should give us the right not to be derided, ridiculed, and purposefully baited into bans for just voicing our opinions in threads specifically asking for those exact opinions on their webpage.  It's pretty telling that despite only banning the "Toxic and bad seed" elements from their forums whenever something like this happens(and yes, it has happened multiple times and this one specific issue isn't the first), yet the problem persists and even worsens....it is high time that they look at the issue and see that maybe it's not the random people trying to voice their opinions that are the problem, but the consistant group of people who rush to every thread with the intent purpose of derailing and flamebaiting anyone who expresses a different opinion.  They're very much like that clique of stereotypical cheerleaders in any movie about high school, or the PTA mom's you see in many sitcoms.

[tryrar]

Guys seriously, this has devolved into a bashing thread that helps nobody. I'm about 2 posts away from calling in the Toad here due to the negativity. We get it, Chucklefish is pretty much doing what NOT to do when facing criticism, let's move on already

[SirAaronIII]

So... is there a "delete character" button yet?

[Shooer]

You guys do realize you are now attacking anyone who disents with you now, right?