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[Ferozstein]

The upcoming new DF version got me thinking. It's going to incorporate unlockable secrets, like the knowledge of necromancy. Apparently, the secrets will have some written form, like books or engraved slabs.

I'm considering a mod that allows for technological advancement beyond the vanilla DF state. Things like gunpowder, improved ranged weapons or discovering the reaction to refine aluminum from bauxite, to name just a few. Sure, it can be done and already has been done by a number of mods, but what I dislike in them was always the thing that all the new technologies are available from the start, while I'd much prefer to start out at the vanilla tech level, and slowly work towards unlocking the cool stuff. Slowly meaning over several years and using a considerable amount of raw materials in the process, not to mention the occassional explosions, for what experiments are if not !!Fun!!? Basically, a somewhat Civilization-style science system, modified for more dwarfness.

I think the written secrets mechanic could be a considerable help with that. The only big problem I see is making research available for other civs too, even if only in a crude way (e.g. the humans automatically getting black powder weapons after a set number of years from the starting point). Would that be even possible, with what we know of the current version and the info Toady gave on the new release?

Also, if I'm trying to reinvent the wheel here, just tell me.

[Putnam]

Sounds great. I was hoping that I could do something similar for Elder Scrolls-style magic. Here's hoping it'll work.

[narhiril]

I'm considering a mod that allows for technological advancement beyond the vanilla DF state. Things like gunpowder, improved ranged weapons or discovering the reaction to refine aluminum from bauxite, to name just a few. Sure, it can be done and already has been done by a number of mods, but what I dislike in them was always the thing that all the new technologies are available from the start, while I'd much prefer to start out at the vanilla tech level, and slowly work towards unlocking the cool stuff. Slowly meaning over several years and using a considerable amount of raw materials in the process, not to mention the occassional explosions, for what experiments are if not !!Fun!!? Basically, a somewhat Civilization-style science system, modified for more dwarfness.

This is the part where nar from LFR says "pick meeeeeeeeee!"

[darkflagrance]

This is hard to do, to say the least. If you give a civilization a reaction to produce some product, that civilization will always have access to that product through the reaction. You would only be able to create a year-based progression by editing the raws while the game progressed.

You could also have multiple human civilizations of varying tech levels and use the PROGRESS_TRIGGER_<attribute> tags to stagger their arrival. One might be like the default iron using civ and use only steel and arrive to trade/fight the player as soon as possible. Another might use steel and superior weapons and armor, and have different, futuristic uniforms, and arrive only at the highest progress trigger. Unfortunately, the old human civ would also still be capable of attacking, although you could chalk that up to non-uniform technological and infrastructural distribution.

For dwarves themselves, narhiril's LFR mod uses an excellent system of research that could be emulated, where research reactions have a low chance of producing reagents that are used to build other workshops or perform other reactions. This allows the player to develop the infrastructure and capabilities of their fortress over time. You can even have branching tech trees this way.

I know very little about how the secrets mechanic works though, and I doubt that it will be flexible enough to allow for useful modding, especially given that no technological progress can take place in npc civs as they are frozen in time after world gen, and therefore cannot continue to discover new secrets while the player's fortress is in progress.

[Ferozstein]

Thanks. I've seen LFR, but it's really too much for my taste. I don't care for additional strange races (from the ones modded in, I'd perhaps let the lizardmen stay, but that's it), fantastic metals or whatnot. See, I'm just a purist with a clear vision of what still qualifies as DF to me, and what doesn't. This is also the reason I'm not playing Fortress Defense, Dig Deeper and other mega-mods that are out there.

Granted, LFR's research system looks interesting. I think I'm going to eventually give in and cannibalize elements of it and stitch together into my personal mod. This will have to wait until the new DF release, though.

[Putnam]

Due to the "only program what is needed" philosophy Toady has done for the interactions this time around, the IS_SECRET_GOAL tag will probably only have the IMMORTALITY goal. What would be great is a KNOWLEDGE goal.

[Meph]

Here some ideas I had for my mod.

Raw materials:
Vanilla buildings need 1 boulder. Easy.
Custom building can use all kinds of stuff, if you need 20 items it gets a lot harder. If these items are high tech already, like soap, steel, rare gems... then you can only build these buildings easily in a big, older fortress, OR you have to actively work towards it.

Magma:
Magma automatically enables magma buildings. Make a normal building, with normal reaction, but make only a magma version of it. This way only fortresses that dug deep, (magma lake) explore (magma chute) or start at a volcano, have access to the tech.

Use Narhirils system:
A reaction that has a low chance of producing a special item that is needed. If the reaction needs reagents, it is a lot harder.

Item drops:
Use items only dropped by special creatures. This way you have to hunt/fight to advance your race. (I use it with cavern creatures (blobs) for special ammo, and semi/megabests (for a reaction that turns a dwarf instantly legendary in one skill) These items can be bodyparts from butchering pets, special egg types, or special corpse types.

Trading:
Make a special item only aviable to one race. This way you have to trade with them to get the better goods. I use this for warbeasts (elven) constructs (dwarven) and 2h-weapons, towershields and platearmor (human)

Hell:
Make a special item only aviable in hell, like an itemdrop, a plant, a tree, a pet, whatever. This way only a civilization strong enough to fight demons get access to the tech.


I hope that helps

[darkflagrance]

Don't forget to use the modding potential you have to your advantage. The more marvelous things you can invent, such as dust that allows dwarves to instantly heal or live forever, or a workshop that eternally produces food from stones, or a smithy that beats out a leather that cannot be penetrated by steel, or superior metals and weapons, the more in depth you can make your tech tree without needing to get rid of the vanilla stuff.