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Poll

Do you want back the old interrogation system?

Yes!As it was!
- 10 (41.7%)
NO!It is much fun and simplistic now...
- 4 (16.7%)
Yes but with some tweking to be easier to understand.
- 5 (20.8%)
NO!It is only time loss!!!
- 5 (20.8%)

Total Members Voted: 23


Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: HI and...hi!  (Read 3212 times)

AngelXDv

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HI and...hi!
« on: January 28, 2012, 10:19:34 am »

Hi! First I wanna say I couldn't wait any longer! The last update was in april! Is the game still being worked on or not? Oh and one more thing:could someone please mod the Genesis mod(yeah I know how bad it sounds!)? Actually I am thinking of the interrogation...I don't know how to mod the interrogation myself(I barely know how to mod the XML files to add some new items so don't blame me,I am not a modder!). I really want back the interrogation as it was in version 4.01.4.Please guys! Help me with the interrogation!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 11:50:44 am by AngelXDv »
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Stargrasper

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 11:47:39 am »

Instead of intentionally trying to sound helpless, you could respectfully ask us to do something.  I'm assuming we're always open to suggestions with Jonathan having final say.  Begging like that makes you look bad, though.  Or you could learn C++ and help to contribute.  I wasn't playing LCS in 4.01, so I have no idea what you're talking about nor have I ever used the Genesis mod.

Yes, the game is still being worked on.  Jonathan S. Fox is essentially the de facto maintainer but has been spending time on a personal project lately.  Kay12 has done a lot of work but apparently hasn't been active in a few months now.  Pesi has been hunting bugs but I'm not sure whether he nor Jonathan have actually squashed them yet.  If you want to play something beyond 4.04, you actually can.  Grab trunk off of SVN and you can download the current dev version.

Welcome to the forums.  It would make your sentences more readable if you placed spaces in between them.  And thanks for showing interest in LCS.
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AngelXDv

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 11:52:07 am »

I don't really understand this phrase: "Instead of intentionally trying to sound helpless, you could respectfully ask us to do something.  I'm assuming we're always open to suggestions with Jonathan having final say.  Begging like that makes you look bad, though. "..................
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Yannanth

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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 12:32:27 pm »

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:07:00 am by Yannanth »
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Gatleos

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 01:05:06 pm »

The best strategy I've found to convert conservative scum is a good-cop-bad-cop routine. Just get two (preferably high-strength) liberals to restrain and beat the hostage until their wisdom is around 1 or 2, then bring in a different liberal with high psychology skill to re-educate them. With fairly skilled liberals, this will almost always convert the hostage in time to make them a sleeper.

And yes, LCS is still in development, but Jon is working on his own project right now.
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Stargrasper

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2012, 01:11:54 pm »

I guess that came off more harshly than I intended.  The "First I wanna say I couldn't wait any longer! The last update was in april!" part is what annoyed me.  It sounds disrespectful in my eyes.  I would have considered it much more respectful to calmly ask questions rather than display an aura of desperation.

And Yannanth?  What part of the OP did I ignore?  He asked if the game was still being worked on.  I both told him yes and told him who was working on it to the best of my knowledge.  He asked about modding, I told him I wasn't familiar with that mod.  He asked about an old feature that apparently has been removed and I responded that I wasn't familiar with it.  The only thing I missed was that very last sentence because I thought it was referring to adding back the removed feature in question.  It looks like you ignored more of my post than I did of his.

And that list of suggestions?  Please tell me it's not the 14 page long thread on the first page.
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Yannanth

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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 02:11:20 pm »

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:07:13 am by Yannanth »
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2012, 06:33:11 pm »

Hi! First I wanna say I couldn't wait any longer! The last update was in april! Is the game still being worked on or not? Oh and one more thing:could someone please mod the Genesis mod(yeah I know how bad it sounds!)? Actually I am thinking of the interrogation...I don't know how to mod the interrogation myself(I barely know how to mod the XML files to add some new items so don't blame me,I am not a modder!). I really want back the interrogation as it was in version 4.01.4.Please guys! Help me with the interrogation!

Okay. I'll make a new release, which will include making interrogation cooler and incorporate some of Deon's Genesis mod features into the mainline.

It may take a couple days.
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Yannanth

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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 07:53:30 pm »

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:03:51 am by Yannanth »
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Pesi

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 08:30:24 pm »

I wouldn't want to see a new release simple for the sake of a new release, as if there's some kind of ongoing deadline to keep to.

(Also, bugfixes are surely more important than new features.)
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Funk

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2012, 08:57:19 pm »

the quickist way to do an interrogation is to do evil cop to brake them then use a good cop to turn them.

your evil cop should have high wisdom and low heart so thay will just outright torture the hostage.
pro tip, use a bush jr mask.

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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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AngelXDv

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 03:57:43 am »

I thank very much Jonathan for reply.
Sorry for sloppy writing but I am from Romania.
I am not asking for a new release,just a modded file that should be optional to download,with the old interrogation system as it is in
this video(Episode 6, minute 8:25)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYF59Emuoi0&feature=BFa&list=PL6D93E&lf=PlayList
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2012, 12:01:40 am »

I work on LCS because I like the game and enjoy developing it. My response may have made it seem like I'm doing it just to keep up with expectations, but I actually find fans of the game inspirational. I'm not offended or annoyed by AngelXDv's impatience -- I'm flattered by it, and it makes me want to do more. I like making people happy and I love creating things that others enjoy. Additionally, I have an interview about some consulting work Monday, and I'm feeling a bit celebrant and wanting to give back to the world, especially since I took the week off from the zombie game.

Deon's mod is stuffed full of great additions, and I agree with Yannath that it's appropriate for vanilla -- I've been secretly planning to steal a lot of his work back into the mainline build for awhile now. I hope that enhances the reputation of his work rather than diminishes it. ;) I did make a number of modding-the-mod changes of my own in the integration process. I wanted cyborgs and augments to come in a little bit later, to keep with LCS's current approach of making future tech an easter egg, but I kept it much sooner than the other future tech. Ammunation will be open as a legal gun store until L+ gun control (he has it turn into a black market for C through L), and the display there will help clarify what ammo is used what what weapons. I spent a LOT of time trying to make sure the additional guns don't cause more confusion -- I personally like the detail, but we can't assume players will know what an M1911 is, let alone what caliber of ammo the gun takes. Maintaining usability is pretty important to me. I think we need a way to see details on guns, including their damage, accuracy ratings, ammo, things like that -- playing Cataclysm (roguelike) earlier this week gave me some context on that, they do a great job.

More gun stuff: "Buy a Liberal gun" changes to "Buy a Conservative gun" at Ammunation and only there, because it's a such a Conservative store. Stocks in various stores were changed up. I switched the Glock 18 machine pistol to the less interesting Glock 17, but added a Tec-9 to replace it. 9mm SMGs will now share ammo with 9mm pistols. Right now, that means they must continue to have the vanilla style 15 round clips rather than the larger ones in Deon's mod, but SMGs are really good weapons either way -- they have been for several versions, really, they're just underappreciated because they used to be awful. I've also added the Desert Eagle to Ammunation, and let you buy ammo for it. It'll be quite expensive and slightly nerfed (still great, just a little *less* overkill). The M249 will still be unique and ridiculous.

For interrogation, I started by doing research on brainwashing, interrogation, and deprogramming, going back to the drawing board on how to simulate things under the hood and present that simulation to the player. I'm cleaning up the code a lot, breaking a lot of things in the interrogation file out into separate functions to make it cleaner and easier to maintain. I'm not finished, but my intent is to have a more detailed sidebar with new stats on things like the subject's suggestibility and mental stability, as well as explicit scores on their Conservative views in different areas. The goal is to keep this sidebar up and refresh it throughout the interrogation report, so you can see what the effects of each sub-action are, rather than waiting until the next day. This should help you troubleshoot your strategy in real time -- you'll be better able to guess things like them getting suicidal because you destroyed their mental stability, your conversion efforts aren't working because you haven't increased their suggestibility, or rapport is very low because beating them up keeps lowering it.

The fossil record of the interrogation system in LCS tracks my personal growth as a game designer. Simplifying it was intended to make it easier to use and remove options that had minimal or very hidden impact, ridding the system of weird hidden variables and making it much more playable. My goal now is to add back in the old features, and make it even deeper than it was before, even as the transparency I was going for is extended. I don't want to remove the pixie dust by turning off judgment calls through exposing information -- instead, I'm hoping to make it more strategic, and less about applying blueprints. It wan't necessarily meet these goals, but I'll call it at least a partial success if the interrogation minigame is MORE interesting, to both casual and experienced players, than it was or looked in the time of Grimith's Let's Play.

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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 02:48:40 am »

I'm going to have to take a break from this and go back to the Zombie game, rather than releasing this week as I intended; I'll come back and continue at a later point. The interrogation redesign is proving to be a lot of work, and I'm getting pretty weary of it. What I have so far seems to be working well though, I'm happy with what's coming together, and I have high hopes for it.

There are a number of other changes that will be ready for the next release too, based on a bit of playtesting. I didn't like the proliferation of new game options in the SVN build, because while I appreciate the intent behind them, they don't fundamentally change the gameplay experience the way the other choices do, and they dump a bunch of choices on players at the start of the game. Given this, I cut the new endgame options (the ones for easy victory and no amendments) and replaced them with a new feature aimed at solving the same problem -- extending the late game for players that don't want the game to end so soon, while letting players end the game early if they don't care about the end game glide to the finish.

Now you'll see a victory screen when the country is all Liberal or better (not necessarily Elite Liberal), giving you an option between ending the game and scoring an "easy" victory or continuing for the classic pure L+ win. Elite Liberal victories will always rank higher on the scoreboard than Liberal victories. Even after the elite victory, instead of kicking you back to desktop, it'll show you the victory screen, save your high score, show the high score board, and then return to the game to let you continue playing if you wish. It should be obvious that the game is beaten while not forcing you to stop. (I don't think I've yet appropriately addressed how to deal with your save file, actually; the game needs to be able to let you start a new game after you win this way... perhaps this is a good reason for creating a front-end menu screen. Another thing I'll have to think about when I come back to it.)

For anyone who really liked the new options (eg, you especially want to be able to disable the Elite Liberal amendments), let me know why it's important to you; I want to keep the front-end options lightweight, so as to avoid dumping a bunch of confusing choices on new players, but I don't want to cut valuable features either. I'm hoping the change I described above sufficiently replaces these options, so let me know if it doesn't.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 02:54:20 am by Jonathan S. Fox »
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Deadmeat1471

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Re: HI and...hi!
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 07:03:43 am »

Awesome work Fox <3
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