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Author Topic: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA  (Read 43706 times)

Montague

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #270 on: February 25, 2012, 09:23:30 pm »

Dubbya Bush also enjoyed approval ratings of something like 80%. 90% post 9-11!

I don't take approval ratings for presidents to mean much of anything in terms of the performance of said elected official. No matter how blatantly serious their results are, respective of the popular support held for such actions in the 20/20 hind sight of history, approval ratings at any given time really mean absolutely nothing, unless it's in the context of an upcoming election.

Obama did some incredible things while in office. Ended the Iraq War. Iced Osama Bin Laden. Passed Obamacare. Saved the automotive industry from collapse. Accelerated the end of the war in Afghanistan. Rallied US allies to oust the dictator in Libya.

Really, I think people have a misguided outlook. I think Obama has done an excellent job as president, even if I don't agree with his ideological outlook. It sort of reinforces my idea that the US government functions best when there is a mixed government. Republican legislative branch with a Democrat president, or a Democrat congress with a Republican president. When one party holds the triple crown of the government branches, the country seems to go to shit.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 10:38:10 pm by Montague »
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Phantom of The Library

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #271 on: February 25, 2012, 11:44:07 pm »

The large majority of the problem, at least where I live, is that people attribute powers that the president doesn't actually have to the position, and so any president becomes a sort of giant scapegoat nowadays it seems.
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NinjaBoot

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #272 on: February 26, 2012, 01:26:31 am »

Obama did some incredible things while in office.

Like not passing a budget!

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Ended the Iraq War.

He ended US involvement in Iraq, the War was over shortly after it again!

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Iced Osama Bin Laden.

Correction, the policies and actions taken by Bush led to the eventual execution of Osama Bin Laden. 

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Passed Obamacare.

You mean the same bill they said was needed to be passed to see what was in it? 

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Saved the automotive industry from collapse.

Ensuring the pensions of union-workers =/= saving the auto industry!

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Accelerated the end of the war in Afghanistan.

But then jumped into another war in Liyba? 

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Rallied US allies to oust the dictator in Libya.

You got me there!  (Oil fields in Libya? Pure coincidence, honest!)

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Max White

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #273 on: February 26, 2012, 01:29:26 am »

He negotiated a nuclear treaty with Russia, can't deny that was a fucking mountain.

Itnetlolor

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #274 on: February 26, 2012, 03:28:38 pm »

Ayup, it seems most people vote for someone because they are voting against another.
I still wonder: if both parties are essentially evil, then why not vote for no party? Vote against both by not voting at all. Instead of screwing over one, screw them both over by abstaining your vote (if registered).

Voting is a right, after all, and not an obligation. That is still something that bugs me until this day (enough, everyone. I'm sick of everyone hounding me to make one insignificant vote. It's MY right, I choose not to use it; I trust nobody, therefore I decide not to vote whatsoever. I respect those that have fought for preserving my right, and I practice my right by choosing not to use it yet.). My only rational worry about the registered, but not voting, route that I see is that there's still the likelihood of vote hijacking in order to rig election victories (happens almost all the time with the deceased, and I have yet to see this problem fixed). But still, if you don't like either party or candidate, vote neither or (D) none of the above.

I'm aware it still seems rather illogical, but I figure if even 1 vote matters, then I wonder how much it matters when it's not used? Multiply those numbers en masse, and I wonder what would really happen? How much of an effect would a mass abstinence make? Even if it would never likely happen, I can imagine, how would the public take it? How would politicians react? How would their backers and SuperPacs take it? How would the media spin this one? I'm surprised this question never came up even as a hypothetical thought. Sounds like something Anonymous can screw around with. 2012 election, DDoS the election voting servers, and prevent any votes from coming through until after the vote counting due date (turn the US into Florida during Bush/Gore); or hack the final tally to be a dead-heat tie between R/D/I (or a nobody wins ending). And why stop with just the president? Do this for all the positions.

Sure, it may come off as treason by tampering with the votes, but it can possibly make people think of just how practical the voting system really is. Come and think of it, if the voting system could be hacked and adjusted; why don't hackers, post-voting, take all ther listed votes and IDs, and utilize some sort of checking software to cross-reference the voter indexes with the obituatries and death census indexes, and correct the amount of ill-gotten votes, and eventually, leak the difference to the public? What would be worse? Potential mass voter fraud, or the "treason" of ensuring that they're all legit and we have an honest election for once?

Of course, we'd have to hope that the hackers responsible would be good sports about if the person they voted for (post-correcting) legitimately lost, and not try to tamper any further themselves.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 03:32:07 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Phantom of The Library

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #275 on: February 26, 2012, 03:40:27 pm »

The not voting thing is already going on.  I don't remember the exact number, but a good chunk of the U.S.A. never votes, it's been an issue for a while: a lot of people simply don't care.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #276 on: February 26, 2012, 04:03:40 pm »

I'm aware it still seems rather illogical, but I figure if even 1 vote matters, then I wonder how much it matters when it's not used? Multiply those numbers en masse, and I wonder what would really happen? How much of an effect would a mass abstinence make? Even if it would never likely happen, I can imagine, how would the public take it? How would politicians react? How would their backers and SuperPacs take it? How would the media spin this one?
"Hahaha, look how politically apathetic the young voters are. We won't bother with their trivial desires."

I'll be using my protest vote on a third party.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #277 on: February 26, 2012, 04:23:33 pm »

I'm aware it still seems rather illogical, but I figure if even 1 vote matters, then I wonder how much it matters when it's not used? Multiply those numbers en masse, and I wonder what would really happen? How much of an effect would a mass abstinence make? Even if it would never likely happen, I can imagine, how would the public take it? How would politicians react? How would their backers and SuperPacs take it? How would the media spin this one?
"Hahaha, look how politically apathetic the young voters are. We won't bother with their trivial desires."

I'll be using my protest vote on a third party.
Hell, that would work too. I wouldn't mind even seeing a 3rd party win. That, or at least higher than a 1-digit %.

EDIT:
Hoping the psychology of people would be consistent enough: Bush (Republican) sucked, Obama (Democrat) sucked, let's see how well a 3rd-party would do comparatively? I would actually be interested to see how a 3rd-party Independent would run things.They're usually never given a chance. I mean, sometimes the last kid chosen for the team (or the social outcast) is the underdog that wins the game.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 04:29:02 pm by Itnetlolor »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #278 on: February 26, 2012, 04:31:16 pm »

FPTP causes people to always fall into a pattern of strategic voting. They pick the candidate they hate to stop the candidate that they find utterly abhorrent, and thus democracy fails to get results.
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SalmonGod

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #279 on: February 26, 2012, 05:57:47 pm »

I'm aware it still seems rather illogical, but I figure if even 1 vote matters, then I wonder how much it matters when it's not used? Multiply those numbers en masse, and I wonder what would really happen? How much of an effect would a mass abstinence make? Even if it would never likely happen, I can imagine, how would the public take it? How would politicians react? How would their backers and SuperPacs take it? How would the media spin this one?
"Hahaha, look how politically apathetic the young voters are. We won't bother with their trivial desires."

Wouldn't be so easy to spin that way if the portion of the population granting legitimacy to the establishment were a very small minority.  It would also help if someone set up a website or something for gathering signatures of people who were abstaining due to dislike of all available candidates, rather than apathy.

FPTP causes people to always fall into a pattern of strategic voting. They pick the candidate they hate to stop the candidate that they find utterly abhorrent, and thus democracy fails to get results.

And this is exactly why I think abstaining is necessary.  The system is designed to scare people into granting their explicit permission to be governed by one side or the other.  They work together to monopolize the media between them and play off of polarizing cultural divides.  I'm not going to give my statement of approval to a group of people I fucking despise, just because the other guy is even worse.  It warps the democratic process and important public perceptions when I do so. 

Your vote is your voice, and the majority of people are routinely tricked into saying something they don't really mean.  This is how our fucked up situation perpetuates.

I would vote for a 3rd party candidate.  I voted for Nader in '08.  I'm just not aware of any this time around that I actually like enough to go to a voting station and hand over my official stamp of approval saying "I agree with this person and want to be governed by him."
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Phantom of The Library

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #280 on: February 26, 2012, 07:14:12 pm »

I love those guys, why can't we have a party that's like them and not just well described by their name?
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This is what happens when we randomly murder people.

You get attacked by a Yandere triangle monster.

Leafsnail

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #281 on: February 26, 2012, 08:56:35 pm »

MRL candidates are actually obliged by their party to stand down if they get over a certain portion of the vote.  Although I suppose a candidate could defect and become an MP anyway...
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Sensei

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #282 on: February 26, 2012, 10:06:15 pm »

I love those guys, why can't we have a party that's like them and not just well described by their name?
We do, they're called the green party.
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NinjaBoot

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #283 on: February 27, 2012, 02:05:58 am »

I love those guys, why can't we have a party that's like them and not just well described by their name?
We do, they're called the green party.

I thought it was the Tea Party?

Regardless, voting apathy is killing American politics. 

If what the Tea Party did in the last senatorial election, then it should be proof that a motivated voter-base, even if it is 3rd party, can have an impact on national politics. 
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Heron TSG

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #284 on: April 05, 2012, 10:26:36 pm »

AGAIN THEY RISE!

And again we shall meet them at the walls and throw them back! Stop CISPA! Those bastards will catch on one day.
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