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Author Topic: A Base on the Moon  (Read 16693 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2012, 02:04:47 pm »

Yay, someone who knows more about it than me.

At least I wasn't completly wrong.
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palsch

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Towards a Newt Lunar Republic.
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2012, 02:23:26 pm »

Warning - long and often boring post on the near-term future of space colonisation ahead.

The jumping off point for this is Newt's idea about a moon base by 2020. I think this is an impossible idea, for many ideas outlined below, but for those interested in the 2012 presidential side I may as well start there.

One way or another, 2012 is the year of geek vs geek. Obama's geek credentials shouldn't need repeating here. Newt has cultivated for a while a low key science fiction nerd cred. The moon base is a part of that but it's been around for years. In 2008, Scientific America named him the biggest geek in the race. I honestly disagreed with that though. Everything I've read and heard suggests that Romney is actually a bigger geek in the areas that matter for a president, especially in the areas we are talking about.

Being a SF nerd doesn't cut it when you are talking about national super projects. You need to be an obsessive details guy. That fits Romney perfectly. He is a process guy and I almost feel sorry for him having to run for office and play politics. Not that sorry given he has millions of dollars and no conscience, but still. While I don't think that business success (especially when measured in pure dollars) translates into good leader, his sort of ability does translate into well managed projects where success is put ahead of other considerations.

So while Newt is the one putting forwards the idea, I'd rather see Romney actually manage it. As for who would actually be able to get this done politically, Obama is far more in line with what is needed for a practical proposal, philosophically and ideological. As I'll explain later, the only way this happens is as a giant Keynesian public works bill project. Obama is the only Keynesian running for president this year. Completing this project without treating it as a stimulus would require massive cuts in other areas, and under a Republican that means public services and likely healthcare and welfare. Not a trade I'd be happy making, even if we did get a moon base out of it.

But onto the actual problems and questions. I'll start at the easy end. Technology.

Spoiler: Technology (click to show/hide)
Now let's get a little trickier. Moon colony society.
Spoiler: Social (click to show/hide)
How about the political and economic side?
Spoiler: Politics (click to show/hide)

My personal view?

I'd love to see serious space exploration and colonisation. I'm extremely doubtful we are ready for any of the challenges above. I'm certain the moon base won't happen. Realise that these are the problems and issues one moderately well educated and engaged physics graduate has given thought to. I'm not an expert on any of these areas and have probably missed some points that make everything else redundant. A lot of this is personal prejudice and belief. I doubt anyone will be on board with everything I say.

That said, I'm hoping people will argue some of these points and at least consider them. As always my main goal is to expose some of the underlying complexities that usually get lost in these discussions. They are where most of the fun lies, after all.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2012, 02:39:17 pm »

Yay! Spread our problems in space :D

Criptfeind

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2012, 02:54:57 pm »

Aright.

Criptfreinds patented three step solution to moon bases:

Step one: Make two giant glass domes, then fully encase the moon in the resulting glass sphere.

Step two: Hook a giant rubber pipe to a opening in the glass dome, let the pipe dangle into the earths atmosphere. Because of patented vac-u-suck physicsTM this will fill the glass dome with breathable air.

Step three: Send up water and and increasingly complex plant life in stages.

Now you have a a moon that can support human life!

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GlyphGryph

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2012, 03:04:08 pm »

palsch, permission to repost that in other locations, with attribution and link?
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darkrider2

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2012, 03:29:47 pm »

I'm pretty much under the philosophy that civilization has to reach out into space before it consumes all of its own planets resources, or it fails.

Yeah it takes centuries and we have other things to do right now like starvation, overpopulation, economics, etc. but you have to start somewhere.
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DrPoo

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2012, 03:32:19 pm »

Didn't they recently build that laser that was so powerful it was going to be used to rip a whole in the fabric of spacetime?

That sounds dangerous, we should definitely move such a laser to the moon.

If this was facepunch a year ago i would rate you bad reading. They were planning to.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 03:34:56 pm »

Didn't they recently build that laser that was so powerful it was going to be used to rip a whole in the fabric of spacetime?

That sounds dangerous, we should definitely move such a laser to the moon.

If this was facepunch a year ago i would rate you bad reading. They were planning to.

What happened to it? I was looking forward to the UK being turned into the death star.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2012, 03:36:42 pm »

I quite like Xkcd's take on space travel (remember the alt text).

Quite frankly, we need to make sure we have a few enclaves off of this rock. It's a nice rock, don't get me wrong, but our species kind of has....precedent involving what happens to us and the nice things around us.
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Euld

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2012, 03:50:39 pm »

Here's a question, hopefully it's not too weird for an answer o_O  Shouldn't we worry about putting too much stuff on the moon or mining too much out of it?  I mean, wasn't there a story a while back about the US setting off explosives on the moon to alter its orbit to a safer orbit?  If it's possible to do that, then wouldn't it be dangerous to even put a moon base there, since it may affect the orbit of the moon?

Ogdibus

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2012, 03:51:11 pm »

This is just more evidence that Newt is an alien.  He's preparing to have his people come and harvest humans for food, and steal all the earth's water (again).

If he were human, he would want to build a large, mobile orbital platform to replace the international space station.  It's way more practical, considering our extensive use of communication satelites, and our need to keep them working.  The lower gravity of a space platform would probably be better for experiments in manufacturing things that can only be made in 0g, too.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2012, 03:52:55 pm »

Here's a question, hopefully it's not too weird for an answer o_O  Shouldn't we worry about putting too much stuff on the moon or mining too much out of it?  I mean, wasn't there a story a while back about the US setting off explosives on the moon to alter its orbit to a safer orbit?  If it's possible to do that, then wouldn't it be dangerous to even put a moon base there, since it may affect the orbit of the moon?
We aren't going to be able to change the moon's orbit. Whoever told you that story is a moron, and the moon's orbit is already "safe". It isn't coming towards us, it's decaying away from us.

The Moon's surface area is about the same as the USA's. Do you think we could move the US with rockets? What about if the US is a sphere full of rock?
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Euld

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2012, 03:59:56 pm »

Just checking, wasn't sure if that story was true or not.

RedKing

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2012, 04:03:24 pm »

Do you think we could move the US with rockets?
Are you saying we can't?? That's defeatist Commie talk, son! We can do any damn fool thing we put our minds to in this country!

Fire up the rockets! And put some eagles and flags on those things!
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Valid_Dark

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Re: A Base on the Moon
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2012, 04:56:06 pm »

TERRAFORMATION !!!!!
is the route we should go,
I've already invented plants that don't need sunlight
(won me a state wide science fair back in '08)
and there are other plants, such as the ones at the bottom of the ocean that don't need light.

although that would take a very very very very very very very long time.
(make sure you read every instance of the word very above, if not bad things will happen to your family)

there's currently 7 billion people on this planet,
in the 1950's it was 2 billion,  projections aim that by 2050 there will be around 22 billion people.
thats too many.  Most people would be against government sanctions of limiting childbirth.

now that I think about it, sending a few million to the moon / mars wouldn't even really make a dent in our Billions,
we're screwed,
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