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Author Topic: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality  (Read 6221 times)

LoneTophat

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Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« on: January 27, 2012, 09:57:12 am »

Gender stereotypes have always frustrated me, even before adolescence and now adulthood.
We live in a world where women can be domineering and masculine but men are quickly categorized 'pussies' (etc) for being feminine and submissive.
I'm not saying that pop culture doesn't ostracize masculine women, pop culture ostracizes everyone, but in real life you don't hear the same harassment as you do when you're a feminine male. Add a petite body frame and a fondness of tight clothes? HEY IT'S THAT GAY KID ;D

Anyway, part of the reason why I left highschool is the above. Someone also defaced my facebook so it said I was a homosexual and AIDS ridden. I liked little boys etc.
Now I'm finishing up school in adult ed, that's going well. Small groups>Large Classes

Also; I have many homosexual friends and I protect them whenever they get grief. So I automatically get targeted for that as well.
I mean, we're all people aren't we? Can't we just accept our differences and move on?
I never did anything to hurt these people, why do they seek me out so they can hurt me?

:\ Anyway /rant over
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Telgin

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 10:44:44 am »

I mean, we're all people aren't we? Can't we just accept our differences and move on?

Apparently not, and it frustrates me to no end.  This is something about human nature that just gets under my skin, and I fear there's nothing that can be done for it on any large scale.  I really think it's just part of being human, and I hate it.

Anyway, I can't really relate to most of this, but I more or less understand.  On a personal level I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of homosexuality or going against gender stereotypes.  On a more realistic level I think it goes back to human nature: we expect certain things out of males and females, and when we don't get that we find them strange.  And when people find other people strange, there's an innate desire to point it out and try and ostracize those people.  I'm sure there's a good reason for this on a psychological level that I don't fully understand, since it seems to be pretty universal.

Or maybe I'm just crazy.  :)

Anyway, I can relate on some level.  I have a good friend that I'm all but convinced is homosexual, but he's never admitted it to me.  I suppose he doesn't feel the need, and that's fine.  On the other hand, I think he might be afraid to because two members of my family are quite strongly against homosexuality.  I just don't understand sometimes.  I'm sure it's like this everywhere to some extent, but I can tell you that living in the south east US, I hear plenty of ignorant and hateful things about homosexuals, and I don't like it one bit.  Same for people of other races.  It's downright childish sometimes.

And that's the thing really.  Humans have may have instinctive desires to pick at people that are different from them.  But we also have the ability to rise above that through reason, and yet so many people choose not to.  That is what frustrates me.
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LoneTophat

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 11:44:55 am »

I mean, we're all people aren't we? Can't we just accept our differences and move on?

Apparently not, and it frustrates me to no end.  This is something about human nature that just gets under my skin, and I fear there's nothing that can be done for it on any large scale.  I really think it's just part of being human, and I hate it.

Anyway, I can't really relate to most of this, but I more or less understand.  On a personal level I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of homosexuality or going against gender stereotypes.  On a more realistic level I think it goes back to human nature: we expect certain things out of males and females, and when we don't get that we find them strange.  And when people find other people strange, there's an innate desire to point it out and try and ostracize those people.  I'm sure there's a good reason for this on a psychological level that I don't fully understand, since it seems to be pretty universal.

Or maybe I'm just crazy.  :)

Anyway, I can relate on some level.  I have a good friend that I'm all but convinced is homosexual, but he's never admitted it to me.  I suppose he doesn't feel the need, and that's fine.  On the other hand, I think he might be afraid to because two members of my family are quite strongly against homosexuality.  I just don't understand sometimes.  I'm sure it's like this everywhere to some extent, but I can tell you that living in the south east US, I hear plenty of ignorant and hateful things about homosexuals, and I don't like it one bit.  Same for people of other races.  It's downright childish sometimes.

And that's the thing really.  Humans have may have instinctive desires to pick at people that are different from them.  But we also have the ability to rise above that through reason, and yet so many people choose not to.  That is what frustrates me.

What folks don't understand is that humanity is a work in progress. We CAN evolve into a better moral society. We simply choose not too.
People who say "It is the way it is" get on my nerves. The only constant in life is death and taxes. :P
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Telgin

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2012, 11:53:37 am »

I agree to an extent, and for the record I don't think "it is the way it is" is a valid excuse.  :)  We're able to overcome our nature through culture and learning, but it's still sort of a bandage on top of the problem.  On the other hand, I'd say humans as a whole have come a good ways since the dark ages, even if perhaps only in public.

Maybe there is hope for humanity through society alone, but I'm a pretty bad pessimist...
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Neonivek

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2012, 12:11:09 pm »

Also be careful complaining about the Double Standard in public when going about it from the male perspective.

People are VERY insulted if you even imply the double standard affects men even a tiny bit.
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Funk

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2012, 12:43:55 pm »

it is true that most things have a Double Standard.
you can find Double Standards every where from war and crime to changeing light bulbs men get stuck with the worse deal.

some times it a hold over from old sexist times gone by, or just Gender Stereotype that is abused

im amazed that some people are so hatefull to homosexuals, im mean there not a threat to you.
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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LoneTophat

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2012, 12:56:57 pm »

Also be careful complaining about the Double Standard in public when going about it from the male perspective.

People are VERY insulted if you even imply the double standard affects men even a tiny bit.

But it does. Derp.
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DJ

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 01:20:55 pm »

In b4 Vector.
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MorleyDev

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2012, 02:38:23 pm »

I managed to be rather effeminate and not get beat up or attacked over it.

Then again, things don't seem to be as bad in the UK, and definitely not in where I grew up...also I played it up at times and made a joke of instead of getting offended so...yeah. It's hard to insult someone by calling them gay, if their response is to laugh along ^^

If there is something different about a person, they often get mocked. If you ever get offended by a mockery, it causes people to mock you more. It's a funny thing about the human condition, the best way to stop people offending you is to not be offended when they do ^^ Now, being outright attacked with no way to negate the situation, that's a problem that's hard to deal with. Everything else is knowing how to manipulate your way out of the situation.

(If you want to know what I mean by played it up, during a fancy dress day at college I went as a bunny rabbit. I once wore women's clothing for a charity fashion show.)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 02:42:50 pm by MorleyDev »
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Neonivek

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2012, 03:12:18 pm »

Also be careful complaining about the Double Standard in public when going about it from the male perspective.

People are VERY insulted if you even imply the double standard affects men even a tiny bit.

But it does. Derp.

Yes but you are instantly a sexist for thinking so.

Sorry its the rules.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 03:23:46 pm »

Also be careful complaining about the Double Standard in public when going about it from the male perspective.

People are VERY insulted if you even imply the double standard affects men even a tiny bit.

But it does. Derp.

Yes but you are instantly a sexist for thinking so.

Sorry its the rules.

Yup.

What folks don't understand is that humanity is a work in progress. We CAN evolve into a better moral society. We simply choose not too.
People who say "It is the way it is" get on my nerves. The only constant in life is death and taxes. :P

Europe?

lordcooper

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 03:24:22 pm »

Try living by my rules.  Anyone obnoxious enough to give you shit for no good reason no longer matters.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 05:20:56 pm »

The problem about double standards is when you start implying that you're worse off, or that the fact that there's a double standard invalidates other people's problems.

Yes, there are double standards.  No, it's not a contest.
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LordBucket

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 07:48:16 pm »

why

There are reasons. Do you wish to understand them, or would you prefer to rage helplessly that things are not how you wish them to be?

Quote
We live in a world where women can be domineering and masculine but men are quickly categorized 'pussies' (etc) for being feminine and submissive.

First, no we don't. We live in a country where this is the case. There are countries where masculine women are not socially acceptable. There are countries where feminine men are. And even within this country there are varying shades of acceptability of the above.

Escaping these cultural biases might be as simple as moving somewhere else.

Quote
harassment as you do when you're a feminine male. Add a petite body
frame and a fondness of tight clothes? HEY IT'S THAT GAY KID

Again, realizing that this may be true, for you, for your particular cultural group, in your very localized part of the world...will you try to understand why people do as they do, or will you whine and complain and endure it? Will you try to change your self, or your environment, or move, or in some way adapt either yourself or your surroundings to be more comfortable with each other, or will you simply blame others who are clearly not comfortable with you for not treating you as you want to be treated?

These problems have solutions. Do you want solutions, or do you want to be at odds with your environment?

I'm not attempting to make any particular value judgement on this point. There are people who, for whatever reason, feel they need to be at odds with their surroundings, to be in positions of stress and unhappiness, etc. If that's what you want, you know how to accomplish it. But if it's not what you want, then continuing to do what you're doing, where you're doing it, might not be the best way to change the status quo.

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Now I'm finishing up school in adult ed, that's
going well. Small groups>Large Classes

Ok. But I would advise against assuming that these issues will all magically vanish once school is over. The people who've given you grief in school will also graduate.

Quote
I mean, we're all people aren't we? Can't we
just accept our differences and move on?

It is not for me to say. However, I have consistently observed that humans have some difficulty doing as you suggest. I advise you to consider that this phenomenon is not limited to gender issues. Humans persecute humans for a variety of reasons: religion, genetics, physical traits like height and body weight...even considerations such as preference for one brand of beer or another or choice of football team or the fact of not having one can draw taunting and ridicule.

There is nothing special or unique about being persecuted for perceived gender non-conformity.

I advise you to give up your belief that you are being uniquely targeted for this. You are not.

Quote
I never did anything to hurt these people,
why do they seek me out so they can hurt me?

They are acting on an instinctive drive to "clean their own house."

There are some who have difficulty distinguishing between themselves and the wolfpack they perceive themselves as part of. When you look at a pile of sand on the beach, do you think of it as millions of individual grains, or do you tend to think of it as "sand?"

These people who seek you out, on some level they perceive not you, not themselves, but "humans" as a group. Not you, not themselves, but "men" as a group. And these people have specific beliefs on what they consider to be the proper nature and behavior of these groups "human" and "male," of which they consider both themselves and you to be a part.

You do not conform to their expectations.

If you were some faraway "other" that might not bother them. But they perceive you to be part of these social complexes just as they themselves are. As such, their perception of "you" and "they" are not so totally separate and distinct as yours personally might be.

Simply ask yourself: if you saw a strange girl you didn't know prostituting herself out for money to buy drugs, which would bother you more? That, or seeing your sister and mother do the same? If someone were standing next to you wearing a completely mismatched set of clothing with their underwear hanging out and spaghetti stains on their face, would you be more likely to point it out to them if that person standing next to you were a total stranger, or a good friend of yours?

Is it more important to you that people who are close to you conform to your own personal expectations for conduct, decorum, presentation, etc? Why? Is it because you are closer to these people? They are your friends, your family. On some level you perceive them as being part of the same groups of which you perceive yourself to be a part. You might say of them that "we" are friends. "We" are family. You are part of them. And consequently, their actions, their behavior, and their presentation reflects on you personally.

Individuals with a strong sense of group affiliation feel real and personal discomfort when individuals they perceive as also being part of their group do not conform to behavior that they themselves would be comfortable with.

They perceive you as they might perceive a cancer cell. They are seeking you out and giving you grief in an attempt to clean their own body.

I advise against attempting to explain this to them. You are not responsible for the perceptions of others. Do what you will to preserve your own self, and allow others to do the same. Their actions are justified acts of self preservation in their worldview. Attempting to change the worldview of others is generally a difficult and unrewarding process.

But do try to understand why they do what they do.

Funk

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Re: Gender Stereotypes & Homosexuality
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 08:36:53 pm »

leaveing school does help as if you live in a place of any real size you stop haveing to spend time with such people so often.
but in life there will aways be people that you dont get along with.

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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

Unofficial slogan of Bay 12 Games.  

Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG
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