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[Cruxador]

I didn't know people still used Mayday. I thought Phoebus and Ironhand were the big ones these days. Good to see Mayday is making something for people who just want an improved ASCII now, that's a group that hasn't had a good option for a while

People just skip over those and go straight to the source of Mayday since he has a website.

He is also the person I usually get people to download when it is their first try.

The ability to know what you are fighting immediately when seeing it is just a large boon.

Hm. I generally link prospective players to the Lazy Newb Pack and its thread; in addition to coming with Phoebus built in, it has other stuff that people are liable to want, and if somebody expresses frustration at something that there's a standalone program for, I can tell them "open this folder, then open this folder, then run this program" instead of obligating them to either deal with it or download and install a whole new thing.

I think it's about time to start making waves about this again.  Since the release is so imminent, we should at least ask Toady to take a look at what improvements are feasible after the customary bug fix releases.

This opinion seems to be growing in popularity.

[Dheyjin]

[/quote]
 I generally link prospective players to the Lazy Newb Pack and its thread;
[/quote]

I found out about DF years ago but haven't touched it until I saw a Let's Play on Youtube about it, that used a graphic tileset and the Lazy Newb Pack.
Even if it took me days to overcome the typical beginner problems, watch and reading tutorials for hours, I have so much fun with the game now.
I would'nt have gone through this process without graphics and I would'nt play it further.

I do understand that the game is coded the way it is and that switching over to full graphic support would be so much work. Time that could be spend on debugging or developing new stuff. But I think it would be worth it, to not scare new people away from an awesome game just because of the way it looks.

With Mayday stepping back from his graphics support I can only hope that Toady hears this wakeup call and does something about it. Even a slow step by step transition, with monthly updates for a couple more tiles, would send at least a signal to all the graphic designers, that this matter, that's floating around for a long time, is now taken care of.
If he decides it's still not worth the effort, more desginers might step back and he loses an opportunity to make an awesome game even better.

[Symbiode]

I was a little worried when I first saw this thread, but after trying DFGs myself I don't have any problems with it. I'm primarily an adventure mode player so that may have something to do with it, but it felt just fine to me, and in fact I think I may prefer it this way. Maps are easier to read, there are no text problems, and some ambiguous items are easier to identify. The only thing that threw me off were trees as they are a little harder to spot, but overall it seems just fine.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Forgive me if this is rather noobish, but I am coming back after a half year of playing so I may have missed this.

*clears throat*

Did Mike stop making mac versions of the tile set?
I went to his website and saw a download that was listed as "mac/linux' but it downlaods a .exe file!
Is this some sort of cruel joke?

[Mike Mayday]

...which is kinda weird, since I've never put up a mac/linux download. Other people have been doing it on their sites to help me, but all I've ever had was a tutorial on how to create such a version.
Are you sure you're talking about MY site? http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.php

[Crossroads Inc.]

Ah yes indeed, 
I was able to edit it before... Im the guy who neded up with all Ore being shown as Bats ;P

But al lthe times before it seemed to just have a file I opened and transfered into. Now it has the .exe on it, and won't work at all.

I'll give it another try when I get home from work today.
EDIT: by the by, thanks for making the tile sets in general, they really should be standard with the game

[Rose]

I just looked at the site, and I see two zip files.

[Mike Mayday]

Japa: Both are for windows.
Crossroads: did you try the tutorial on my page? (DIY DFG). The fact that you consider the .exe in my download as somehow relevant makes me doubt it

[Rose]

@Mike I know, but it's still just a matter of replacing the binaries.

[Neonivek]

I generally link prospective players to the Lazy Newb Pack and its thread

The issue I have with the Lazy Newb Pack is it includes many tools for the player that a newb does not need.

Mayday's pack had everything you needed and so there was nothing to confuse the player.

So I'd never suggest the Lazy Newb pack to a new player. I'd suggest it to a player who already has experience under their belt. I think the Lazy Newb pack actually does a bit more harm to newbs to be honest.

[YetAnotherStupidDorf]

Oh, this problem is easy to solve. Just hide these advanced tools. And add tick somewhere "show advanced view".

[Cruxador]

I generally link prospective players to the Lazy Newb Pack and its thread

The issue I have with the Lazy Newb Pack is it includes many tools for the player that a newb does not need.

Mayday's pack had everything you needed and so there was nothing to confuse the player.

So I'd never suggest the Lazy Newb pack to a new player. I'd suggest it to a player who already has experience under their belt. I think the Lazy Newb pack actually does a bit more harm to newbs to be honest.

I might include a caveat like "don't worry about most of the stuff that comes with it for now". There's things the newb doesn't need, sure, but there's also shit a newb does need, and most folks aren't going to dig around the folders and run everything without specific instruction anyway.

[jockmo42]

And think of it this way, knowing what everything looked like as a tile for so long will really help you understand what it is in magespeak.

Not another of those folks... 

I'm not saying anyone that uses a tileset can't use regular tiles, but it seems pretty clear to assume that a lot of people use them because they haven't learned to read the regular tiles easily yet.

I mean I'm only guessing on what you're reacting badly to here. Maybe you just can't stand optimism.

[Neonivek]

I generally link prospective players to the Lazy Newb Pack and its thread

The issue I have with the Lazy Newb Pack is it includes many tools for the player that a newb does not need.

Mayday's pack had everything you needed and so there was nothing to confuse the player.

So I'd never suggest the Lazy Newb pack to a new player. I'd suggest it to a player who already has experience under their belt. I think the Lazy Newb pack actually does a bit more harm to newbs to be honest.

I might include a caveat like "don't worry about most of the stuff that comes with it for now". There's things the newb doesn't need, sure, but there's also shit a newb does need, and most folks aren't going to dig around the folders and run everything without specific instruction anyway.

See "For now", I guess I made my point.

[Cruxador]

I generally link prospective players to the Lazy Newb Pack and its thread

The issue I have with the Lazy Newb Pack is it includes many tools for the player that a newb does not need.

Mayday's pack had everything you needed and so there was nothing to confuse the player.

So I'd never suggest the Lazy Newb pack to a new player. I'd suggest it to a player who already has experience under their belt. I think the Lazy Newb pack actually does a bit more harm to newbs to be honest.

I might include a caveat like "don't worry about most of the stuff that comes with it for now". There's things the newb doesn't need, sure, but there's also shit a newb does need, and most folks aren't going to dig around the folders and run everything without specific instruction anyway.

See "For now", I guess I made my point.

No you didn't. People should still download the LNP and use it, that doesn't mean they need to use every single thing that comes with it from the moment they first run the game. Even for the things that wouldn't necessarily be used at first, it's preferable to have them easily available