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Author Topic: DF on Xbox360  (Read 7406 times)

Shades

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 07:26:22 am »

As you can run Linux on an x360 and DF runs fine under Linux you can already do this if you wish.
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612DwarfAvenue

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 07:43:03 am »

As you can run Linux on an x360 and DF runs fine under Linux you can already do this if you wish.

>Non-Microsoft OS like Linux on a 360
>Like that would ever happen in any official capacity :P.
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Shades

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 08:11:32 am »

>Non-Microsoft OS like Linux on a 360
>Like that would ever happen in any official capacity :P.

And yet is still (fairly) easy to do :)
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Xyon

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 08:37:04 am »

Well I never said toady would spend the time doing it, but its possible, he would need to get a team like minecraft guy did in order to get stuff done faster than one person can do it, at the rate things are going I do believe his 20+ ish year prediction before DF 1.0 is true.
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Telgin

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2012, 08:40:33 am »

I dunno, couldn't some different coding be used to make the graphics processing hardware be used to process the physics, ai, and other stuff that is very cpu intensive? I know there are CUDA capable video cards that process work units as well as graphics, I guess it depends on whether a console could do the same thing, and whether all the programming would be worth the effort.  Of course, multiple-core support would be good too, since a lot of processors are no longer going for raw speed but rather multiple cores for better over-all speed running lots of stuff.

This is kind of what I was getting at.  I don't recall for certain who manufactured the graphics chips in the XBox [360], but I think it was AMD/ATI.  If so, then it's not a valid CUDA target of course, but maybe OpenCL.  I still doubt the driver supports that.

Even if it doesn't, you can still kind of abuse old school shaders (or whatever it supports) to do simple massively parallel computation.  Things that don't require branching, for example.

Trouble is I strongly suspect that DF wouldn't map to this sort of thing at all.  Toady wasn't sure about a few general purpose threads, much less a few dozen to hundred simple ones.  :)

If Toady did find a way to parallelize DF, then running it on 3 cores in the console would probably give pretty good performance.  You can't go by the clock speed of the processor alone: a Core 2 a 2.0Ghz will beat the crap out of a Pentium 4 at 4Ghz.  Still, I suspect the XBox's processor would be tolerable, especially when using all of its cores.
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Aiki

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 10:11:03 am »

Let's just leave DF as it is and not mix it with consoles because porting such a game to X360 would be the weirdest idea i've ever seen and this is the kind of game that should only be on PC. An adventure mode would not be bad on X360 even if it would be a bit hard with controls and all the buttons but Fortress mode impossible.
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Telgin

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 10:55:03 am »

Unless I'm horribly mistaken, the XBox runs a highly modified version of Windows 2000 and has a C++ compiler.  Thus DF could reasonably be ported to it, although there are definitely some concerns to be had.

For one I strongly suspect that the OS interface would require some work, even if it's a modified version of Windows.  I've never coded for a console before, much less an XBox, but I suspect that things like the standard message pump and process entry points are all handled differently.  I think it uses DirectX natively, but I don't know what graphics API DF uses.  I suspect it's OpenGL (SDL version anyway), which means more porting work... Input would probably have to be reworked too, but the XBox does support keyboards so the interface actually wouldn't need all that much work.

And from my understanding most if not all consoles don't provide any explicit memory management system since general purpose memory managers are too slow for games and developers end up writing their own anyway.  So that's a nontrivial amount of work.

So... yeah, in the end, it's way too much work to be worth it.  Maybe some day when the game gets to at least version 1.0 Toady might consider branching it to consoles with open development kits.  Which is another issue actually... I doubt the XBox will run games that weren't built and signed by its devkit software, which is surely ludicrously expensive.  The alternative is XNA, which to my knowledge is C# only.
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peskyninja

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 11:00:16 am »

DF 360 comunity would be similar to minecraft comunity.  :-\
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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 02:25:00 pm »

DF 360 comunity would be similar to minecraft comunity.  :-\
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Fredson

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2012, 08:22:07 pm »

You couldn't run anything even remotely similar to GPGPU things (CUDA etc) on an XBox. As far as I know it uses some horrible mixup of the AMD X19xx and HD28xx GPU architectures which is above DX9 standards but still far below the needed DX10. Also the RAM... oh my god the RAM!
And besides that: It has an IBM PowerPC triple core at 3.2GHz and toady ditched that support (for macs) ages ago.
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Aleksander

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2012, 10:39:41 pm »

Why would you want to port DF to a console?
Why would you want a console?
Why do you own a console?
Why do consoles exist?


Honestly, you can buy a cheapo laptop that can run DF fine.
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612DwarfAvenue

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2012, 10:53:10 pm »

You couldn't run anything even remotely similar to GPGPU things (CUDA etc) on an XBox. As far as I know it uses some horrible mixup of the AMD X19xx and HD28xx GPU architectures which is above DX9 standards but still far below the needed DX10. Also the RAM... oh my god the RAM!
And besides that: It has an IBM PowerPC triple core at 3.2GHz and toady ditched that support (for macs) ages ago.

Wait, what? The 360 has an IBM CPU?
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Telgin

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2012, 11:26:02 pm »

And besides that: It has an IBM PowerPC triple core at 3.2GHz and toady ditched that support (for macs) ages ago.

Ideally that's just a matter of finding a compiler, so DF itself wouldn't need any work to support PowerPC processors again.  That's assuming that Toady isn't using inline ASM anywhere, which I wouldn't really expect, even in highly optimized code.  Rarely worth it.

The XBox's development environment should abstract this away completely.  Depending on what parts of the C++ standard it supports of course, which I would hope was everything he needs anyway.  It might not have full STL support though... and I suspect he is using STL containers.  That could be ported... with effort.

The development environment is surely very expensive and maybe not even available to people like Toady.
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Sirus

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2012, 11:31:16 pm »

Quote
The development environment is surely very expensive and maybe not even available to people like Toady.
I remember reading a New York Times article about DF, Toady, and Threetoe. It seems that they are just barely living within their means as is, though they do keep their expenses as low as possible.
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Fredson

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Re: DF on Xbox360
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 06:25:42 am »

You couldn't run anything even remotely similar to GPGPU things (CUDA etc) on an XBox. As far as I know it uses some horrible mixup of the AMD X19xx and HD28xx GPU architectures which is above DX9 standards but still far below the needed DX10. Also the RAM... oh my god the RAM!
And besides that: It has an IBM PowerPC triple core at 3.2GHz and toady ditched that support (for macs) ages ago.

Wait, what? The 360 has an IBM CPU?

Yes, the XBox 1 had a normal Pentium 3 but the 360 uses a PowerPC processor. Just looked on Wikipedia to confirm this and actually its quite a beast of processor, even for todays standards. Roughly on par with current i7 processors concernig GFLOPs (~115). But sadly, still not x86 :(
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