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[Archaalen]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but there seem to be several commercial games out or in production right now that focus upon controlling a group of dwarves digging into the ground and building stuff.  Delve Deeper, Dwarfs!?, and now A Game of Dwarves all seem to be cashing in on the general concept of DF, just without the enormous complexity and variety.  What are the community's thoughts about these commercial DF-like games?

[JimmyBobJr]

Personaly, i think its great. Dwarfs?! Was a fun little romp (For about a hour).

Delve Deeper seems like a good buy, i was thinking of getting that a while ago, but never got around to it.

Havent heard of the Game of Dwarves (Is that a play on Game of Thrones?)

I mean, DF is the best game ever, so im surprised that it took so long for people to try and emulate the idea.

But still, the main comparison between DF and the other games is that of which you said; It has Dwarves that do Dwarfy things - These games have none of the humor, charm or Epicness that DF has, so its not quite fair to compare them Imo.

[Lord Dakoth]

If you pull some random guy off the street and ask what Elves, Dragons, or Wizards are like, you will likely get a number of varied answers.

However, if you ask a random person what a Dwarf is like, you'll probably get something along the lines of "a greedy, drunken little bastard who crouches in caves, pisses 160-proof brandy, and eats things out of his own beard."

Remember that Our Dwarves Are All The Same. When it comes down to it, there's really only four things that dwarves really do:

1) Dig up everything
2) Hoard everything that can be dug up
3) Ferment and drink everything that can't be hoarded
4) Axe up everything else in an liquor-clouded rage

In any given medium of fiction, dwarves rarely deviate from the same basic principles. Dwarves have been done and re-done pretty much the exact same for quite a while now. Toady wasn't the first to capitalize on it, and he certainly won't be the last.

[Rex_Nex]

Like above, pretty much all games featuring dwarves will reek of DF. Thats just how it is until you realize DF reeks of Stereotypical Dwarf.

[Cruxador]

If you pull some random guy off the street and ask what Elves, Dragons, or Wizards are like, you will likely get a number of varied answers.

However, if you ask a random person what a Dwarf is like, you'll probably get something along the lines of "a greedy, drunken little bastard who crouches in caves, pisses 160-proof brandy, and eats things out of his own beard."

Remember that Our Dwarves Are All The Same. When it comes down to it, there's really only four things that dwarves really do:

1) Dig up everything
2) Hoard everything that can be dug up
3) Ferment and drink everything that can't be hoarded
4) Axe up everything else in an liquor-clouded rage

In any given medium of fiction, dwarves rarely deviate from the same basic principles. Dwarves have been done and re-done pretty much the exact same for quite a while now. Toady wasn't the first to capitalize on it, and he certainly won't be the last.

Not really. You're emphasizing dirty and chaotic. Others might emphasize lawful (tradition oriented) and consider dwarves to generally be clean, as in the D&D portrayal.

[jester]

Id have to say that apart from containing dwarves and a bit of digging, Dwarfs!? and delve deeper bear no resemblance in any way shape or form to DF as games.  Looking at A game of Dwarfs it looks more like dungeon keeper at first glance than anything else 

[aadeon]

The Dwemer from the Elder Scrolls were a pretty original take on dwarves. They were an intellectual scientific high tech race with robots and stuff. And they were as tall as other elves. But yeah, that sort of exception of the stereotype is pretty rare.

[hermes]

Good question OP...  I've long thought that the DF phenomenon is something that publishers would try to emulate: a successful niche game that has dedicated grassroots support.  It's well known that popular culture feeds off rebranded elements of subculture.  As for me, I am thoroughly disillusioned with the state of the western games industry, and these "DF-likes" deserve no more attention than the latest iteration of a best selling franchise.

Big games companies don't want games to be seen as art, because when it is, there will begin a natural appraisal of the developers themselves as artists, thus a distinction will arise between artists who make games and people (or teams) who simply program for a living.  Just like the printed industries, some are talented but the majority are hacks.  I don't mean this to sound as derisive or offensive as I know it does, but the simple truth is a lot of really terrible games get made by people who aren't talented, and they are mostly imitations of greater games, and mostly the publishers want to hide the fact they were made for a quick buck.  (That said, this looks-like-its-sponsered-by-Microsoft film is perhaps a positive public step towards the critical appraisal of games??)

I don't see anything in these dwarf games to convince me they were made by people with artistic sensibilities worth paying attention to.  Now I shall retire to my ivory tower to work up a sweat on Dance Evolution.

[Loud Whispers]

Never going to be as good as the original DF. Raises awareness for DF. Dwarves aren't a monopoly of DF, so let them make whatever they want. I mean, is someone going to make a game about Dwarves making Forest retreats simply because everyone's already made games about Dwarves digging?

I mean, all Dwarves do is dig :|

[YetAnotherStupidDorf]

DF is under no risk. Niche of this game is impossible to profitably commercialize forever. Unwashed masses aren't gonna play with something that looks like matrix, have about most obtuse UI in existence and learning cliff size of Great Canyon. Those that play DF either likes this (fortunately they are in low number) or consider DF so good and worth playing in spite of mentioned problems.

[RedWick]

DF is an engine designed to facilitate certain types of situations through gameplay, and allow those situations to come together to tell stories.  I mean, without any direct player input, people have a grand time just reading through world history.  The gameplay might almost be considered an afterthought, and to my eye the closest game out there to that, in spirit at least, might be The Sims.

[Oliolli]

I mean, all Dwarves do is dig :|

And get drunk.

[Gatleos]

I mean, is someone going to make a game about Dwarves making Forest retreats simply because everyone's already made games about Dwarves digging?

I'd like to see a game like that, where you help a party of beardless Dwelves to plant pretty flowers and live in harmony with nature.

[Azated]

No game will ever be as deep as DF, which is why I love it so much. So many things happen in worldgen, before you actually start playing, that affect everything in the world.

Once you get into the game, there's so many little things that could happen that will spell ruin for your fortress, like forgetting to lock a door or equipping your soldiers with boots so they don't melt their feet off when fighting an FB.

It's one of those games that will never truly die, I think.

I mean, is someone going to make a game about Dwarves making Forest retreats simply because everyone's already made games about Dwarves digging?

I'd like to see a game like that, where you help a party of beardless Dwelves to plant pretty flowers and live in harmony with nature.

The thought of hippy dwarves chills me to the bone.

[Lord Dakoth]

I mean, is someone going to make a game about Dwarves making Forest retreats simply because everyone's already made games about Dwarves digging?

I'd like to see a game like that, where you help a party of beardless Dwelves to plant pretty flowers and live in harmony with nature.

If dwarves decided to live in trees like hippies, they'd still do it better than the elves.