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[Karakzon]

Generaly ship designs go like this:

You have your light harassment type that is easy to build, usualy armed with bows, and wile not able to outmanuver everything can usualy lurk in shallow waters were larger ships cant attack. These main strength is to back up bigger forces and wittle away, and sometimes outright swarm larger ships to death.

Next up in size is usualy the light-medium that can outrun and out manuver most things, these are the true wolves of the seas, usualy favoured by pirates and their main use is for guarding merchant ships and harrassing/outflanking the opposing fleet to break up their formation.

Mediums:
these are your mainstay, producable from most shipyards worth mentioning and able to take a pounding, wile at the same time being versatile enough to make the backbone of the fleet. Their main role is to hold the line in close quarters and boarding actions, and to rain a steady stream of ranged fire down on your opponents, can also be fitted with a ram and ores for extra usefullness.

Heavys:
These are the true swords of the fleet. lurking within the lager medium group, their job is to systematically crush usualy a flank of the armarda and sweep down the side, crushing everything in their way. Offensivly orientated for massive boarding actions but not so much ranged as the others. Built to take a pounding and built to kill medium and lighter ships.

Heavy seigers:
Basicaly the size of heavys but with seige equipment, built to harrass and sink opposing heavy ships from a distance far far away and then able to defend themselves when in close quarters against mediums.

Specalist ships:
Dread ships, ghost ships, monsters and fireships go here. specalisation in causing as much damage in a small amount of time as possible but usualy lacking in the sturdyness of your average ships. The fireship could be a flamethrower mounted light-mediums or could be a suicide ship canabalised from captured but too badly damaged wrecks.

Generaly try to fit ship designs in these roles. Their should be a human made mainstay fleet with your average designs to fit all these and then you can have your more evil special forces like the kraken etc. These ship types hold true right up to the end of the age of cannons.

[kaian-a-coel]

seconding armok there. especially on the dragon armor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, it come from monster hunter, but it's near of what we want.
The LEFT one of course. with bigger wings. And the tail.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

BETTER ARMOUR FOR ELIZA:

Spoiler: Dragon Armor (click to show/hide)

Ingredients: one (1) live black dragon, custom made for the purpose masterwork full plate of the very very highest quality darkbarr steel, lots of master-quality work by black imps at several points through the process, lots of magic and a bunch of raw evil.

Fluffy Features:
- Magical link between the wearers and the dragon nervous system letting them control it as their own limbs.
- Dragon wings, granting flight with the speed and lifting power of a dragon. Wing bones reinforced with steel.
- Fire "breath": the dragons magic/biological flamethrower fired from the sides of the helmet.
- Dragons tail, armored so that it looks like it was actually attached to the wearer while in reality it's part of the armor itself. Ends in a double battleaxe.  Also helps stabelize flight.
- Dragon scales and steel intimately melded, taking on the best properties of both.
- Regenerating armor: as it is melded with living tissue, the steel regenerates damage with time and care like a living creature. Or with healing spells and potions.
- Powerfull wards, against both physical and magic attacks.
- Swiss army magic: practical but boring and mostly irrelevant stuff like protection against the elements, underwater breathing, taking care of waste products, basic adaptive camouflage (actual invisibility is probably to hard, but some basic colour change might work), increased comfort, etc. sprinkled wherever it doesn't interfere with any of the armours more important features.
- Totally awesome sweet looks.

Gameplay features: flight, increased physical might, no separately tracked armor damage.

Pretty good. Munchkinish but I like it. Except tail with battleaxe, you can't fly if you unbalace yourself in that way

###
We really need to set up a proper forge-temple here in Dolnar. Same design as the Barrspring one, 200% bigger. We also SERIOUSLY need to expand the mines massively, and get a steady flow of resources going up and down the river.

And an akatree grove, and fix up the docks to start producing ships.

I am strongly against building anything in Dolnar, it shold be left as it exists. And why build teple forge far from the mines?
Mines and the grove is post Barrtal conquering material.

To round out our troops we need to acquire additionally:
- 70 haunter armours
- 24 water elementals
- 65 sintaurs
- 45 Novice Wizards
- 20 armored baneghouls (from the baneghouls we already have, not more baneghoul creation
- 9 turrments
- 15 catapults
- 75 Biolopolyboli, 25 of which are to be given to sintaus.

Create whatever infrastructure is needed to accomplish this swiftly.

1) Don't want water elemntals, and it's looks like Nuke forgot to remove them from stats, after they were killed in the tournament
2) We can't tran wizards, only acolytes
3) Why not armour all baneghouls? But later, after we mopped up Barrtal, we shouldn't send our elite forces Barrspring
4) I prefer training more human cavalry, it's useful because can be reused mid\after battle as sintaurs.  And alive horses breed

SHIP DESIGNS:
The Krekarrs are WAY not demonic enough, here's a few better ideas:

Pfff.... Lets disband human part of the army  they are way not demonic enough.

As for better ideas... Say my ideas, alternative ideas, more demonic ideas or whatever to not sound like an ignorant teen

Spoiler: Ghoulship (click to show/hide)

-At the base an aquatic baneghoul.
-Buoyant/can't dive. This is due to hundreds of gas bubbles in it's flesh making it essentially unsinkable.
-Uses 16 ghouls.
-Looks like a galley without sails or oars. Long, narrow, and low in the water, and with a head... only in this case, the mouth and eyes are real, not painted on.
-Has a large deck with railings on it's "back" with room for abut 50 humans, and a much smaller one below that embedded in it's flesh
-Chimney/snorkle sticking up through the deck for breathing.
-Subdued and weak-minded compared to normal ghoul-derivatives, following orders given through a set of levers below deck like a machine.
-32 powerful fins propelling it forward, faster than any human ship.
-wooden skeleton
-Two long flexible arms, like those of the titaneghoul but smaller. Usefully both for reaching out of the water and fighting, and for grabbing the bottom to pull itself relative to it doing manovers that can't be done by pushing against water or wind. 
-A giant pair of toothles jaws wider than the ship itself, like those of some deep sea fish, capable of swallowing small boats whole.
-The railing has mountings for... pretty much so many Biolopolyboli that the number of mountings is never the limiting factor and not work keeping track of, and better treated as just a bonus to firing them from the deck.
-A catapult.

We are in a river. River have limited space for big ships. And you have no sense of proportion, ship capable to eating other ships need way more than 16 ghouls

Ghost ship: requires known location of a sunken ship, properties depend on local history. Think about a certain popular series of films about pirates to get the general idea. 

Again, we are talking about a river... Not many sunken ships there, especially ones with dead crew

Akatree galleon:
An enormous, luxurious galleon with room for hundreds of soldiers grown from a single still living piece of wood. Instead of masts and sails, tree trunks grow from the deck and spread out into a lush canopy, each branch and leaf articulated and capable of turning itself in the wind, catching it like a million miniature sails. It has oars to, like a galley, but no rowers- they are pulled by rows upon rows of human arms growing right out of the decks! Like most galleons it is heavily decorated, but rather than gold, bright paints and ornate carvings it is covered in silently screaming faces, unmentionable body parts, and arms that reach and grasp like living boarding hooks.
Finally, using the roots that dangle underneath it's keel, and the photosynthesis in it's "sails", they ship both desalinate water and provide nourishing meals for it's passengers... IF you can stand the faint taste of blood in the water and and meatiness of the fruits.

Galeons and rivers don't mix

If you want something more mundane than these... the old designs non-demonic navies use are better tested and more efficient.

Not for river, and non-demonic navies don't use biolopolybolos. Why I choosed viking style? (Bassicaly ripped of drekar) Becase it's one of the few ships that can operate both in a river and in an open sea effectively

[Armok]

Yea, bigger wings. Also, this is full plate, a fair bit more coverage than that, especially since it has fairly bulky dragon tissue making it thicker. And I imagined a somewhat less cluttered design but that's unimportant so everyone can have whatever headcanon they want about it.

The ship roles overview is good, except for "specialist". Every ship is a specialist at something AND has a weight class.

I'd say for us "aquatic infantry" like the water elemental and blue imps, and sea monsters like giant octopi. (the kraken was a SPCIFIC giant octopi)
The Ghoulship would land square in the  "light-medium wolves of the sea".
The akatree galleon is a clear Heavy.

And ghost ships are whatever role they are before they got sunk... they are literately an undead ship, magic animating both ship and crew as they were in life. Not like the crapy zombies but not any dominating super special powers either... they relate to normal ships like our Skeletal Knights relate to normal knights.

So, we're lacking in Medium and Heavy seiger designs... Lack of good large-scale seige capability is a problem for our land armies to. For medium maybe another ghoulbased thing if the Ghoulships turn out well, otherwise we might simply go mundane there. Or I'll think up some nice design later, maybe some iron/forging themed...

Ninjad:

The tail is MAINLY to HELP balance, the combat capability was an afterthought.

novice wizard, acolyte, same thing.
Because armor is expensive? But yea, if it's not we should.
Well, we obviusly shouldnt kill living horses to do it, but I doubt there's a lack of horses already dead for other reasons to go around.

They are not demonic enough to be worth making as new designs. If we're going to do human ships we should just go "make galleys" or something, which come to think of it is probably a good idea. Lets make some generic galleys.

The ghoulship is supposed to be a small ship. Yea, I messed up my sense of proportion. It's fixed now.

The other ship designs were not intended to be made right now.

... ok fine, I guess your designs are better for rivers. Sorry.

[Karakzon]

we can move to mainstays when we hit open ocean. untill then the viking designs will be better for general river travel.

[NUKE9.13]

3) Why not armour all baneghouls? But later, after we mopped up Barrtal, we shouldn't send our elite forces Barrspring

For the same reason you don't turn all your ghouls into baneghouls. It would be inelegant to have more armoured baneghouls than regular ones; armoured baneghouls are like the third tier of the ghoul ladder.

I like the idea of turning a living dragon into a suit of armour (Armok, as always, has a rich imagination; perhaps overly so in some cases, but whatever).
I feel compelled to point out that this world does- to a certain extent- operate on 'video game logic' when it comes to armour. Not in that a chainmail bikini would provide as much protection as a full suit of solid steel, but in that there is no harm in 'important' people wearing no helmet/an open helmet, or indeed in wearing armour that sacrifices a bit of (logical) strength for looks.

seconding armok there. especially on the dragon armor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, it come from monster hunter, but it's near of what we want.
The LEFT one of course. with bigger wings. And the tail.

In other words, both of those would be equally effective.

So, if you can all agree on the plan, I will get working on the update.

[kaian-a-coel]

Indeed. Why no real armour have spikes? because if hit, they could get inside the armor, therefore nailing down the bearer. I explain badly, but it's the general idea.
So spikes = video game logic.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Plan A, Short turn version:

Krlnkir
1) Go to Culloden together with your army and wife, corrupt that minor river in process
2) Send a messenger to the king of Nagaron with a proposal to meet with Krlnkir and\or Eliza and discuss politics
3) Tell Eliza about all your deeds from birth to Dolnar conquest. Including consort and daughter

Eliza
0) Command forces
2) Go to Culloden
3) Take lessons from Balthanor

Mobilizing\Demobilithing
2) Demobilize 50 Brown imps and send them to the overhunted woods, for fun farming
3) Mobilize  Balthanor the Necromancer, he will not only join the army, but will teach our wife some real magic.
4) Mobilize 10 Acolytes
5) Demobilize 49 black imps, and send them in 7 groups of 7 in mountains to build mines\fortresses
6) Demobilize 26 black imps and send them to the mines of Aonogake to boost production
7) Mobilize sailors for the fleet
Demobilize novice wizards and convert them in acolytes or invokers

Army
1) Go to Culloden

Realm\CFM
Start doing this: (obiviously no enough time to do everything)

1) Mass train 200 acolytes
2) Build ships: 10 Krekarrs, 2 Big Krekarrs + some boring merchant ships
3) Build 15 catapults, 9 turrments, 70 haunted armours, 75 Biolopolyboli, 25 of which are to be given to sintaus.
4) Build generic infrastructure: Tunnels\roads\bridges
5) Create the dragon armour
6) Expand Barrspring mines
7) Raise 65 sintaurs, train and arm 200 light infantry
Build Amberash furnaces near Demonic Totems, and start mass converting "useless" animals and weak\spoiled Giant Rats
9) Send merchants downriver To Nagaron, among other things sell Darkbarr ore\steel and Barrspring booze: buy horses, generic staff
10) Build stables, and start mass horse breeding program (black, big, corrupted warhorses)

Plan B  long turn version:(Bassicaly fastforwarding conqest of Culloden)

Krlnkir
1) Conquers Barrtal, except Aviemore.
2) Send a messenger to the king of Nagaron with a proposal to meet with Krlnkir and\or Eliza and discuss politics
3) Tell Eliza about all your deeds from birth to Dolnar conquest. Including consort and daughter
4) Create the dragon armour
5) Expand Barrspring mines, summon more black imps for the task.
6) Spend time with daughter
7) Summon 200 elementals (50 of each type)
Create one ghoulship

Eliza
1) conquers Barrtal, except Aviemore
2) Take lessons from Balthanor
3) Visit Barrspring
4) Consider having a baby.

Mobilizing\Demobilithing
2) Demobilize 50 Brown imps and send them to the overhunted woods, for fun farming
3) Mobilize  Balthanor the Necromancer, he will not only join the army, but will teach our wife some real magic.
4) Mobilize 10 Acolytes
5) Demobilize 49 black imps, and send them in 7 groups of 7 in mountains to build mines\fortresses
6) Demobilize 26 black imps and send them to the mines of Aonogake to boost production
7) Mobilize sailors for the fleet
Demobilize novice wizards and convert them in acolytes or invokers

Army
1) conquers Barrtal, except Aviemore

Realm\CFM
1) Mass train 200 acolytes
2) Build ships: 10 Krekarrs, 2 Big Krekarrs, 1 ghoulship + some boring merchant ships
3) Build 15 catapults, 9 turrments, 70 haunted armours, 75 Biolopolyboli, 25 of which are to be given to sintaus.
4) Build generic infrastructure: Tunnels\roads\bridges
5) Create the dragon armour
6) Expand Barrspring mines
7) Armour 15 baneghouls, raise 65 sintaurs, train and arm 200 light cavalry
Build Amberash furnaces near Demonic Totems, and start mass converting "useless" animals and weak\spoiled Giant Rats
9) Send merchants downriver To Nagaron, among other things sell Darkbarr ore\steel and Barrspring booze: buy horses, generic staff
10) Build stables, and start mass horse breeding program (black, big, corrupted warhorses)
11) Expand Barrspring mines


I prefer B, personally,  but probably GM has plans for the siege of Culloden


Edit: Edited stables a bit. Added: Elementals and ghoulship in the longterm version

[Armok]

Sounds good, except I still think we should make sintaurs and water elementals, and we should try at least making a prototype ghoul ship (my fixed 20 ppl capacity version) even if it's not much practical use at the moment.

I feel compelled to point out that this world does- to a certain extent- operate on 'video game logic' when it comes to armour. Not in that a chainmail bikini would provide as much protection as a full suit of solid steel, but in that there is no harm in 'important' people wearing no helmet/an open helmet, or indeed in wearing armour that sacrifices a bit of (logical) strength for looks.

I have no inclination towards chainmail bikini and that has nothing to do with realism. It's much more towards the impractically bulky, restricting, menacing and depersonalizing "flying tank" direction of unrealism. Think Saurons armour from the opening sequence of LotR, isn't that a LOT scarier than a Combat Whore?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I don't really like elementals... While undoubtedly useful. They are to close to mortal magic and not evil... Maybe we should design and make our own elementals? Smarter ones, with 1-2 mental might demonic intelligence?

[Evil Marahadja]

I go for Plan B, but with a few additions:

1: Make elementals. They are EVIL, and very useful. Great support during a sea battle.

2: Make a flagship able to controll our seamonster.

3a: Build the most vital parts of the ship with Akatrees.For the necessary evilness.

3b: Fill our new ships with evil energi. Not enought to make them sentinent, but almost. Everyship should have a evil soul. Making it easier to steer, battle and so fourth.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

OK, edited in the plan

And sintaurs are already in

[Karakzon]

do we actualy have a sea port in barrtel?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

No we have not, Rest of the Barr River goes through Nagaron to Barrsmouth port. But I think that river is pretty wide and deep for small and medium ships

[Armok]

New plan looks perfect.