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[Satyr]

One of the last updates had "enlarged coin stack sizes and decreased coin non-currency value". Was it realy intended that coins now all have a trade value of 1$, no matter what material? This somehow makes it rather pointless to make anything other than copper, maybe silver coins from time to time to keep the bookkeeper from going nuts.

[RPB]

Were coins ever really useful for trading? I think you get 3 crafts per metal bar and each craft is worth I think 1/2 the price of what the old coin stacks were worth, so even with just base quality crafts I think they might have been better for trading.

[Satyr]

Sure, but I generally make coins anyway, to please my bookkeeper or attract the higher tier nobles. And with the "old" system there was some motivation to mint platinum coins (600$ I think) against copper coins (100$) just in case  you got somehow distracted before the traders show up and forgot to make enough trading goods. Now all coins give a 500$ worth stack and there is no reason anymore to mint platinum coins when the same stack of copper coins pays the bill as well (and far better than any copper crafts).

[RPB]

800 for platinum coins before. But a single platinum craft is 400 for the lowest quality and 800 for the next lowest, and you get 3 crafts with 1 bar. There wasn't really much reason to mint platinum coins instead of platinum crafts, so the only reason to mint them except just for fun was to please the bookkeeper once he starts asking for them. So what's the difference? Before the only need for them was pleasing the bookkeeper, and now the only need for them is still pleasing the bookkeeper.

Besides, if for some reason you want to use coins to buy from the traders instead of crafts, you may as well just use whatever's most convenient. I have tons of gold and platinum around my forges, but the closest copper vein is three times farther away.

[Satyr]

Yes, but arguing that platinum crafts are better than platinum coins somehow misses the point, when I'm comparing the changed value of platinum coins vs. copper coins, doesn't it?

[RPB]

Ok, so what is your point? Platinum coins were useless for trading before, platinum coins are useless for trading now. What's the difference?

[karnot]

Will you just stop babbling about trading ?
The topic is different.

[RPB]

No, I'm not going to stop babbling about THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS in a topic that's about THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS, so shut up. Satyr posted a topic about how the changes to THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS made it so that it wasn't worth it to use anything except copper coins, but even in older versions THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS was low enough that it was never worth it to trade anything except copper coins. So it's kind of wierd that THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS is the same for copper and platinum coins now (and that THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS is even higher for copper coins), but it really shouldn't make that much difference since THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS has always been pretty small.

By the way, karnot, this topic is about THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS. Just thought you should know.

[Satyr]

Ok, one last try to get through:

the situation: you have/want to mint some coins

the choices: 1 (normaly*) common copper ore or 1 more rare and deeper to dig platinum ore

before the change: you end up with either an easy to get stack worth 100$ or a harder to get stack worth 800$. IMO a fair choice.

after the change: you end up with an easy to get stack of 500$ or an harder to get stack of 500$. Not really a choice.

See the problem?

* I think you can agree that "but on my map" kind arguments are a bit ... weak

[karnot]

quote: See the problem?

Yes, but what can you or i do about it ?
Maybe this topic belongs in the "Bugs" section.

quote: By the way, karnot, this topic is about THE TRADE VALUE OF COINS. Just thought you should know.

You, sir, are an idiot. I suggest you learn to read properly.

[Satyr]

ehhh... this topic IS in the bug section  

[RPB]

quote:Originally posted by karnot:
<STRONG>
You, sir, are an idiot. I suggest you learn to read properly.</STRONG>

Uh... yeah. You mean like reading the bit where it says Bay 12 Games Forum >> Bug Reports? Or the part where in the first post it asks "Was it realy intended that coins now all have a trade value of 1$, no matter what material?"

Anyway, back to the topic of the trade value of coins: I understand what you're saying, Satyr, but I don't understand why it matters. The value of a stack of coins only makes a difference if you're selling it to the traders, and it's never been a good idea to sell silver/gold/platinum coins. If you're not selling the coins, it doesn't matter whether they're worth $500 or $800 because that value will never be used. If you are selling the coins, it doesn't matter very much whether they're worth $500 or $800 because either way you're losing money, you just lose a bit more now. So what's the big deal?

[ September 09, 2006: Message edited by: RPB ]

[karnot]

Damn it, keep forgetting to check which forum i'm in at the moment. But hey, RPB is still an idiot, so everything is in place, eh ?

quote:  If you're not selling the coins, it doesn't matter whether they're worth $500 or $800 because that value will never be used.

Oh, really ? Then how exactly dwarves get their wages, if that value is "never" used ?
With what do they buy things ? With what do they pay rent ? The coffers hold only so many coins, so it matters.

[RPB]

Hey karnot, try some more of that wonderful "reading" thing you're so great at and look at the changes list: "enlarged coin stack sizes and decreased coin non-currency value". HMMMMMMMM! If the coins' non-currency value was decreased, then apparently that means the coins must have the same value as currency.

[Satyr]

Simply put, as long as you keep on comparing coins to tradegoods, while I speak of the relation between coins and coins I don't see any sense in continuing this debate. I repeat myself: yes, it is the "trade value" of the coins this is about. But it's not in a "do I trade or mint" scenario but about "if I mint, what will my coins buy me if necessary"