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Poll

How "technical" should my pacifism be?

Attack Neutral Cities.
- 3 (6.7%)
Reclaim Rebel Cities.
- 22 (48.9%)
No offensive manoeuvres, purely defensive.
- 20 (44.4%)

Total Members Voted: 45


Author Topic: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [Merchant Princes!]  (Read 3413 times)

Iituem

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Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [Merchant Princes!]
« on: January 20, 2012, 12:16:34 am »

Just a little something for my own amusement alongside the Britain one.  I'll update this whenever I feel like, rather than feel any particular obligation.

Greece in Rome: Total War is known for being an unstoppable war machine once you get it going - phalaxes are near godlike when correctly employed, especially if they're Spartan to boot.  The last time I took on a single Spartan Hoplite regiment of 160, they took down ten of their number before they finally fought themselves to death.

In this Let's Play, the Greek States cannot agree to ever unite sufficiently to even go to war.  The rule of this LP will be: Do not fight offensive battles outside your home soil - indeed, do not even bring troops beyond your home soil at all.  In Greece: Technical Pacifism we will be taking over the world through diplomacy, bribery and ruthless assassination.

I did say Technical Pacifism.


The only question that remains is how technical will our pacifism be?  In which of the three situations below should we deploy troops?

1. To attack 'rebel' (neutral) cities and claim them for the glory of Greece (entertaining, but not entirely to the spirit of the LP).
2. To attack rebel cities (that have revolted) and reclaim them for the glory of Greece (acceptable, true to the spirit of the LP).
3. Never.  Troops can only be deployed defensively and in the event of rebellion we must reclaim the city 'peacefully'; i.e. through a mix of assassination and bribery.  (The most Fun option of all, frankly.  Could be interesting.)

My strategy will adjust accordingly based on your decision.  I await your thoughts.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 08:47:14 pm by Iituem »
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NRDL

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism!
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 04:08:11 am »

3.  Does this mean you'll have to buy cities? 
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Iituem

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism!
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 01:12:18 pm »

Yes it does.  Looks like #2 is the plan - I can reclaim cities that revolt, but otherwise I'll have to buy out cities that are neutral or go rebel in other states.  Doable!  Should have the first update a bit later.
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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism!
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 03:12:24 am »

I didn't realize there was a poll until after you decided...
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Iituem

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism!
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 02:43:32 pm »

Chapter One: 300 400!

Spoiler: Intro (click to show/hide)

Slave, take this down.  Speak a word of it and you will suffer the punishment.

The Peloponnesian League is reborn, after a fasihon.  The other cities would have made a new league, an 'Achean League' to stand against us, but Spartan might has frightened them into submission!

Or that is what we will say.  The truth is that we have only been accepted into the league by promising to fight only defensive wars - the other states worry we would invade them once we grew strong enough.  They are right.  Since Spartans will not join any alliance without leading it, I demanded they be put under the same conditions.  If they attack, we will.

So our only options to expand are through guile and money.  The former Spartan, the latter very Athenian, though with great irony in that they have refused to join our league at all.  We will sway them over with time.

Why should I have agreed to such unflattering terms?  The state of Sparta.  We have less than two hundred fully trained male citizens to act in our army now - the rest are boys and women.  Much of our military force is now composed of free non-citizens, the periokoi, and the helots outnumber us a hundred thousand to one.  Part of this stems from the poverty of our state - a Spartan must pay for the costs not only of his own equipment and bearings but of the agoge that trains him.  One who cannot is no Spartan.

No, we will use the League to rebuild our strength.  We will play their game.  Then, one day, when we can o'erpower the rest of them we will strike.  Until then, I have little doubt true Spartans will have plenty of opportunity to fight - even only in defense.



Spoiler: War! (click to show/hide)

For three years we built our forces, training periokoi as hoplites to fill out the ranks of the client states.  We built forts in Syracusa, in Aetolia and Phrygia against the inevitable attack that would come when others learned of the conditions of our alliance.

I did say inevitable.  In the third year of our alliance the Romans blockaded the ports at Aetolia and besieged one of our border forts near Syracusa.  We made it abundantly clear that this was a bad idea.


There were bandit troubles to the east in Phrygia.  They were dealt with as one would expect, employing a wall of periokoi hoplites and some Rhodians, who handled themselves well and employed their usual underhanded tactics.  Any tactic that wins is to be admired, after all.  Even in outsiders.

Spoiler: Housekeeping (click to show/hide)

The next two years proceeded as expected.  No significant battles were fought, having routed the Roman army and scared away their fleet, but we continued (and continue) to suffer blockades and piracy from our enemies.  Military forces are building, but the league insists on money going to 'public amenities' instead of more soldiers.  I thought I would be bored with this defensive stance, but even I can tell we need more force of arms behind us.

The ranks of our family swelled, with a marriage of one of my grand-daughters and the coming of age of a grandson.  The grandson-in-law seems favourable, if bland, but the colourful nature of my grandson is a shame to all Spartans.  If he sets foot in this city I will throw him down a chasm myself.  He has been sent to the borders to fight the next invasion.  Either this will toughen him up or give him a proper death. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This year, the fifth of the league, the Macedonians began blockading our ports.  It was a matter of time before they struck Sparta, so I took the liberty of establishing a pair of forts.  There was some grumbling from the league over a fort in what may be considered Macedonian territory, but I made it clear there was no other place to build it.  The fact that it is right next to Corinth is merely incidental.  The children of Alexander lay siege to the fort in question, so I led an army myself to lift it.

A little over 400 men - my guard of Phrygian cavalry, some periokoi hoplites and the full body of the Spartan army, a hundred and sixty men.  I reckoned our odds even - we only faced two thousand and most of those peasant levies or militia.


It is the fifth year of the league.  Let us see how the next few years progress.



OOC: Not my worst battle.  Nearly managed 100:1 kill:death ratio, which is my current record.  The thing I loved most about that battle is how the only losses were cavalry.  Literally a thousand troops crashed against my 300 hoplites (half Spartan) and we took zero infantry losses.

That sort of military power is why I'm playing a deliberately defensive game.  Direct WC is not quite that much fun with Greece.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 02:46:41 pm by Iituem »
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Stworca

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [3- I mean, 400! Sort of.]
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 02:58:18 pm »

OOCQ : I assume that this is on Normal?
Which victory are you going for? Anything above short camp will get boring (for you) with Greeks.
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Iituem

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [3- I mean, 400! Sort of.]
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 03:01:45 pm »

Normal, yes.  I'm not you, after all.  =P

It's set on Long Campaign, but essentially I'll play until I've retaken Alexander's empire and then decide whether to go for a WC or not.
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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [3- I mean, 400! Sort of.]
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 03:09:07 pm »

I asked only because the enemy general (who was a FOOL!) died quickly, and i'm looking for new sneaky ways of dealing with them myself.

Well, You could (perhaps) go all historical and what not. With Spartans fighting only for Mother Ru- Sparta, and "Armored Hoplites" being but noblemen, and thus very uncommon. In the end it depends on how RP you wish to go.

I shall wait in shadows until you fight armored elephants and cataphract archers.
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Zrk2

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [3- I mean, 400! Sort of.]
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 05:40:19 pm »

I shall enjoy this.

Should I commit suicide the first time the senate asks or not?

I'm thinking I should as I have no armies anywhere near Italy. Then I can build some glorious Marian Reform stacks and conquer back Rome. However the Scipii have taken all of Africa over to Egypt and the Brutii just got their shit together in the last ~20 turns and now hold most of Greece. I have France, Spain, Britannia (in three turns when the last siege ends), Germainia and will soon have eliminated the Germans, as soon as I can get some reinforcements there as I can't recruit a legion anywhere between Patavium and Domus whatchmadoogie domus.
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Elfeater

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [3- I mean, 400! Sort of.]
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 07:18:18 pm »

Macedionia was once ours, can we attack that?
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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [3- I mean, 400! Sort of.]
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 07:50:54 pm »

I would say that taking Athens is permissible. You are Sparta, after all.
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Iituem

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [Merchant Kings!]
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 08:43:57 pm »

So I lost the original save, causing a temporary ragequit, but I didn't want to let this one lie.  I restarted as before, but keyed in the wrong screenshot key, so all my shots up to about 260BC are non existent.  Battle-wise, things went much as before - defeats at sea, crushing victories against insane odds on land.

After Cleomenes II (unlike his historical reign, he begins G:TP as an old man in his late 50s) took up the reins of the new Peloponnesian League, he began with the rather un-Spartan tactic of ruthless alliance forging.  He forged trade based alliances with the Seleucids, Macedonians, Ponts, Carthaginians - virtually everyone on the borders of Greek states.  Only the Romans declined, declaring war a year later.

Did Cleomenes expect these alliances to last?  Did he expect any of them to come to his aid against Rome?  Nike's wings, no.  These bought him time - a couple of years for his 'allies' to strut around and pretend to be honourable before betraying him.  These precious, utterly vital years were spent stockpiling resources and acquiring wealth for the essential task of bringing Athens into the alliance - eventually they accepted a 'fee' of more than eleven thousand denarii, and then only because the Macedonians were on their doorstep!  Several rather forgettable battles and skirmishes followed against the Macedonians, who instantly betrayed the League.  Pontus then betrayed the league and mounted ten years of completely ineffectual attacks on the Phrygian border forts.  The Seleucids and Carthaginians cancelled their alliances apparently in preparation for attack, but then went to war with Pharaoh and Rome respectively.  By the end of Cleomenes' reign Greece had no allies and Rome, Macedon and Pontus as enemies.  But by the gods were they ready for it.


A few intrepid Greeks face off against a mighty Macedonian horde; near two thousand in number.  They have archers and worse still, two thirds of their entire force is cavalry.  Reinforcements are delayed and even then they will match only a third of their force.  But they have the upper ground.


The battle progresses as reinforcements come into play.  Taking the highest point on this side of the mountains, a line of Achaean phalangites hold against wave after wave of attacks.  The general's Phrygian bodyguards take casualty after casualty, harrying the enemy at every turn.


Though the enemy is finally broken, the last hour of the battle is the bloodiest.  Near half the Greek army routs or is killed butchering those Macedonians they can catch.  Despite their best efforts, many escape.


As usual, they expected to win.  Though it cost them far more casualties than they would have liked... they did.

This hefty investment soon paid off for Athens was a commercial powerhouse and brought in over six thousand denarii per year in grain, taxes and trade - the latter of which made up more than a third of the take.  Other states followed suit; Crete, though it would be another six or seven years before the principal town Kydonia could support a decent set of docks to export the large quantities of purple available on the island's beaches.



With growing Greek wealth, derived mainly from a growing and influential trade network spanning from Carthage to Byzantium and everywhere in between, more and more independent cities were willing to come under Greek protection.  The sums were officially aimed at the 'betterment of the citizens', though naturally the vast majority disappeared into various patricians' pockets.  Halicarnassus sided with Greece bringing with it the beautiful tomb of Mausolos, an inspiration to all Greek architects and builders.




Cleomenes died after a mere eight and a half years ruling the League, of peaceful means - a very un-Spartan way to die, and as such was not remembered with a headstone.  The last years of his reign were particularly fraught with Macedonian attacks on Athens where the sons of Alexander chiefly fielded massive and terribly equipped armies in the apparent belief that they had too many sons and needed to thin the herd.  The Greeks proved to be exceedingly charitable in this respect.




Doros, his son, took over the League and continued to forge relations with neutral cities whilst battling a fairly stable Brutii threat perpetually trying to conquer Thermon and perpetually being stopped at one of the forts holding the northern passes down from their stronghold.  To the west, the Scipii repeatedly assaulted the equivalent fortress north of Syracuse.  Most of these battles were fairly trivial affairs where Greeks charitably did the best they could for the everpresent Roman housing crisis.


A rare battle against the Brutii where their forces were too large for the fort to reasonably handle.  The local governor rode out to provide support with his Phrygian cavalrymen, aiming to take the hill point as in the Attican battle against the Macedonians.


The best laid scheme of mice and men often go askew.  The Roman equites charged on ahead, hoping to flank the phalanx as they ran into position, swiftling finding themselves in a head on battle with the heavier Greek horses.


As usual, the governor's own men took the brunt of the assault, harrying and breaking the equites and hastati wherever possible.  In this particularly awkward moment, the general is trapped alone amidst a horde of equites.  His troops fought with such vigour and determination that the enemy surrounding him chose to break rather than deal a suitable devastating blow to their foes.



As so often is the case in these battles, struggle turned to rout, then to mopping up.  A result of poor positioning cost the lives of several phalangites - though not harmed by a single enemy, arrows from behind thudded into their backs and slew them.


[This frigging farm.  I see this farm a lot, because it is perpetually the place where the Scipii choose to make their stand.  By the gods, Daimenos must have fantastically fertile fields with all the bodies we keep throwing into it.]





It is now 260BC, ten years into the League's existence.  Greece controls Crete, Syracuse, Helicarnassus, Phyrigia, Attica (Athens), Laconia (Sparta), Rhodes and Thermon.  This year our most incompetent diplomat (Castor of Elis, a man so utterly incompetent he has zero influence - he perpetually insults his hosts and often commits petty crimes, and the only reason I keep him is because I haven't the slightest idea how to fire him) decided to take a more risky foray.  Travelling to the isle of Crete, he made contact with the governors of the town of Salamis.  Despite insulting their sons, engaging in debauchery with their daughters and actually murdering three slaves out of spite, he negotiated a (cripplingly expensive) turn from the dominion of Pharaoh to the protection of the League.



As you can see, the League is doing rather well financially.  Grain remains a primary source of wealth, along with tax, but note the Trade income.  Quite often, factions neglect trade and this is somewhere around a thousand or less.  Since most of my other income is eaten up on construction or upkeep, the heavy focus on trade and industry has effectively given us a turnover of 7000d/turn.  This number will only grow the more markets and ports we build, and the best part is that right now all the cities (except Sparta, which rightly remains under the protection of Nike, goddess of Victory) worship Aphrodite.  Once they convert to Hermetic worship, those numbers will go through the roof.

We are also getting sick of losing naval battles, but now that Syracuse has turned into a large city we can start building quinquiremes.  In the Mediterranean, naval superiority is king.

Now that Sparta has finally built our first Agora, we can begin the real work - dispatching assassin after assassin to ruthlessly gut our enemies.  As soon as their faction members die, we can move in our ludicrously wealthy diplomats and steal the city from under their feet.

Yes, it's a very Athenian way to wage war.  But by the gods is it strangely satisfying.




Finally, the view of an outrider as one of Doros' sons goes on a pleasant ride through the brisk winter morning.  On their way to murdering some Macedonians.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 08:50:45 pm by Iituem »
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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [Merchant Princes!]
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 11:22:13 pm »

Deception, maneuvering, financial management, very un-spartan, but very effective.  Good job, I'm loving it. 
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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [Merchant Princes!]
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 03:31:14 pm »

This is good. I like to see some thought go into it instead of just massacring every army that comes your way.
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NRDL

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Re: Let's Play Greece: Technical Pacifism! [Merchant Princes!]
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 02:44:21 am »

Yeah, every time I watch Total war lps, I always get bored when the player just keeps doing battle after battle.  It's more fun watching the campaign map, and it's really fun seeing people do something unorthodox, like guerrilla warfare, espionage, and yes, technical pacifism.  It may not be Total War, but just watching Total War is actually pretty boring. 
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