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[PyroDesu]

Okay, to start this off, I'm going to put a list of my hardware and some important software up front:

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
BIOS: Version 6.02
Processor: AMD Athalon II X2 250 Processor (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
Memory: 5120MB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon 4200
Connection: Fiber Optics through a WiFi Router

Okay, now that's out of the way...

Why do I find myself in the position of being able to run some high-end (Graphic-wise) games flawlessly, but others still have lag in windowed mode with all the settings at minimal?

[nenjin]

We'd need to know what games you're talking about.

But I'm guessing it's this:

ATi Radeon 4200

Codename   RV620
Pipelines   40 - unified
Core Speed *   500 MHz
Shader Speed *   500 MHz
Memory Speed *   
Memory Bus Width   
Memory Type   
Max. Amount of Memory   512 MB
Shared Memory   yes
shared memory
DirectX   DirectX 10.1, Shader 4.0
technology   55 nm
Features   Avivo HD (UVD 2), PCI-E 2.0, Vari-Bright, HDCP support, Display Cache

The AMD ATI (Mobility) Radeon HD 4200 is an onboard (shared Memory) graphics chip (on the RS880M chipset). It is based on the HD 3400 graphics core and features the UVD 2 video engine  to decode HD videos.

You've got an integrated chip, not a graphics card. Some games, though looking great, do not require an actual video card to preform well. Other games require an actual dedicated card with better specs than your integrated chip.

So again, depending on what games you're talking about, some you're in spec for, some you are woefully under-powered.

[slawr34]

^

As an Optimus (no, not transformer) PC owner - A laptop that has both integrated and dedicated GPU - I have to say that integrated GPUs are basically the Volvos of the GPU world.

Seriously, no one wants to have em, and if you do have on, you may be better off walking (NOT PLAYING GAMES AT ALL).

You see, integrated GPUs are (obviously) structurally different to normal cards, intuitively, so is their software. Most video game engines are not coded to be efficient with integrated GPUS.

And some games just flat out dont work with integrated cards.
Like, seriously.

AND, dont forget. Because the integrated graphics IS your motherboard [? (sometimes just your CPU, not sure with this model)], if you push it too far too often you may completely root your comp.

Sweet dreams.

IMO, get a graphics card, probs an old ATI.

[Telgin]

You see, integrated GPUs are (obviously) structurally different to normal cards, intuitively, so is their software. Most video game engines are not coded to be efficient with integrated GPUS.

They may be quite different structurally, yes, but the OS hardware abstraction means that it presents the same interface to any software written to use a graphics card.  In this case, that would be the graphics APIs and libraries used by the games (DirectX or OpenGL), which further abstract it to a unified interface for the game itself.

What you said is still substantially true though: integrated GPUs generally support fewer features which means that the graphics APIs and / or driver have to emulate them (or just drop the feature altogether) which can affect performance a little or a lot, depending on exactly what is being requested of the card.

And some games just flat out dont work with integrated cards.
Like, seriously.

Quite true.  If the card doesn't support a needed feature and the driver can't emulate it, you're SOL.  This was common back when vertex and pixel shaders were a new concept, for instance.

AND, dont forget. Because the integrated graphics IS your motherboard [? (sometimes just your CPU, not sure with this model)], if you push it too far too often you may completely root your comp.

While technically possible, unless he's overclocking the GPU I doubt he's got much to worry about.    And in the unlikely event that the card does go south, it probably won't damage the rest of the motherboard.  Just get a replacement and hope you can get into the BIOS to tell the motherboard to use the inserted video card instead of the integrated one.


Anyway, I suspect that it really is just the integrated card that's at fault.  Depending on what games you're talking about specifically, some hardware features might not be present but needed in older games that newer games don't need, for example.  Cue driver emulation and performance going to crap.

I'll give an example of this: I have Aliens vs. Predator on my desktop right now.  I also have a new Radeon graphics card (don't recall the model, but it's got 2GB of RAM to put it in perspective), but AvP runs at a terrible frame rate with horrible graphics glitches.  It was written around 2000 and uses DirectX 7 I think.  The video card driver just doesn't work well with it.  If I revert to a much older driver, the game runs fine.  Same story with Starcraft and Diablo II: they're so old and use legacy display modes that modern cards don't handle them well, even though they can run modern games full blast.

So your options are somewhat limited.  You could try changing the driver out to an older or newer version and see if it helps (not terribly likely).  Or you can get a new graphics card.

[Thief^]

Also Wifi is terrible. A right waste of your fibre connection. Assuming you even have a fibre connection, and haven't fallen for the fibre-optics adverts ISPs have been using recently (which mean that THEY have a fibre connection, and they don't give you one).

[Muz]

Also Wifi is terrible. A right waste of your fibre connection. Assuming you even have a fibre connection, and haven't fallen for the fibre-optics adverts ISPs have been using recently (which mean that THEY have a fibre connection, and they don't give you one).

Strongly agreed.

But hey, it's not like it's practical to run an ethernet cable all the way up to your room.

[Thief^]

Not any less practical than any other kind of cable.

[G-Flex]

As an Optimus (no, not transformer) PC owner - A laptop that has both integrated and dedicated GPU - I have to say that integrated GPUs are basically the Volvos of the GPU world.

Seriously, no one wants to have em, and if you do have on, you may be better off walking (NOT PLAYING GAMES AT ALL).

As the former owner of a 1992 Volvo 240GL, I take exception to this. That thing was built solid.

[PyroDesu]

Also Wifi is terrible. A right waste of your fibre connection. Assuming you even have a fibre connection, and haven't fallen for the fibre-optics adverts ISPs have been using recently (which mean that THEY have a fibre connection, and they don't give you one).

Strongly agreed.

But hey, it's not like it's practical to run an ethernet cable all the way up to your room.

My computer is where the hardline is (And it IS actual fiber-optics), but it's forced to go through the router (A new-ish Netgear) because this computer also runs the server (I guess. Maybe they hooked it up that way because they wanted to.)

Some of the guys at my school that are good with hardeware agree that it's the fact that the graphics are integrated, and also that, since it's an older model, it may not support newer DirectX versions all that well.

It's unfortunate that this thing is a factory pre-built (NOT my choice...) by HP, nonetheless.

AND, dont forget. Because the integrated graphics IS your motherboard [? (sometimes just your CPU, not sure with this model)], if you push it too far too often you may completely root your comp.

While technically possible, unless he's overclocking the GPU I doubt he's got much to worry about.    And in the unlikely event that the card does go south, it probably won't damage the rest of the motherboard.  Just get a replacement and hope you can get into the BIOS to tell the motherboard to use the inserted video card instead of the integrated one.

Then it's probably a good thing I haven't the slightest idea on how to overclock this piece of junk.

[nenjin]

The issue you'll be running into is the pixel shader, I'd imagine, other than the raw clock speed. Modern cards pack something on the order of 4x the amount of pixel shader power your chip has, and newer games like to use that stuff quite a bit.

It's unfortunate that this thing is a factory pre-built (NOT my choice...) by HP, nonetheless.

Even being an HP, it'll have an PCI or AGP slot you can put a real card into, if you're so inclined.

[Thief^]

Even being an HP, it'll have an PCI or AGP slot you can put a real card into, if you're so inclined.

PCI is guaranteed, but do you know how hard it is to get ahold of a PCI graphics card that wouldn't be worse than an integrated chip?
For AGP, or in case you mean PCI-e, I've encountered a few pre-built PCs without either. They tend to have obscure chipsets like "SiS", with proprietary integrated graphics that's even worse than usual, though, so the fact it has a Radeon chip is promising, it's very likely to have a PCI-e slot.

EDIT: Not forgetting that adding a graphics card would increase power draw from the PC's power supply, which may also need replacing. And with a pre-built, it may not be possible to find one that would fit (the damn things often have non-standard PSUs that no-one makes).

My computer is where the hardline is (And it IS actual fiber-optics), but it's forced to go through the router (A new-ish Netgear) because this computer also runs the server (I guess. Maybe they hooked it up that way because they wanted to.)

Out of interest, who's your ISP?
I hope your PC's at least cabled to the router. Even at that distance WiFi is unreliable and adds measurable latency and jitter to your connection.

EDIT:

The issue you'll be running into is the pixel shader, I'd imagine, other than the raw clock speed. Modern cards pack something on the order of 4x the amount of pixel shader power your chip has, and newer games like to use that stuff quite a bit.

Much much worse than that. The 4200 has 40 shader units, compared to the 2000 in a top-of-the-range Radeon card, or 400 in a mid-range Radeon card.

[PyroDesu]

Even being an HP, it'll have an PCI or AGP slot you can put a real card into, if you're so inclined.

PCI is guaranteed, but do you know how hard it is to get ahold of a PCI graphics card that wouldn't be worse than an integrated chip?
For AGP, or in case you mean PCI-e, I've encountered a few pre-built PCs without either. They tend to have obscure chipsets like "SiS", with proprietary integrated graphics that's even worse than usual, though, so the fact it has a Radeon chip is promising, it's very likely to have a PCI-e slot.

EDIT: Not forgetting that adding a graphics card would increase power draw from the PC's power supply, which may also need replacing. And with a pre-built, it may not be possible to find one that would fit (the damn things often have non-standard PSUs that no-one makes).

My computer is where the hardline is (And it IS actual fiber-optics), but it's forced to go through the router (A new-ish Netgear) because this computer also runs the server (I guess. Maybe they hooked it up that way because they wanted to.)

Out of interest, who's your ISP?
I hope your PC's at least cabled to the router. Even at that distance WiFi is unreliable and adds measurable latency and jitter to your connection.

EDIT:

The issue you'll be running into is the pixel shader, I'd imagine, other than the raw clock speed. Modern cards pack something on the order of 4x the amount of pixel shader power your chip has, and newer games like to use that stuff quite a bit.

Much much worse than that. The 4200 has 40 shader units, compared to the 2000 in a top-of-the-range card, or 400 in a mid-range card.

Our internet is provided by EPB.

I don't think I'm cabled to the router, I just checked.

This isn't my computer, mind, I'm just the "Primary User" and I can't do jack about it. My parents are overly insistent that I do not require a computer of my own.

[Thief^]

Save up and get/build your own

[PyroDesu]

Save up and get/build your own

They won't let me, even if I'm paying.

[Thief^]

...