Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[xDarkz]

Just got some cash and I'm hoping to spend it towards a new game. I've been eyeballing both titles but I'm not too sure. I'm more fond toward Dawn of War because of the familiar cover system (From Company of Heroes) and it's emphasis on the tactical components of an RTS (Making it an RTT), without the need for crazy korean actions per minute.

Shogun 2 looks interesting and it's on the top of every "Top RTS" list I can find. Other than that, I don't know much about Shogun 2 aside from what I've seen on Youtube videos (1000s of units crashing into one another in fierce combat!). Some of people say they love it because it's just so ... immersive. Others though, say it's nothing more than smashing units together and a little luck.

I've got Starcraft 2, but I'm just not all that into mashing my keyboard to produce direct counters to my opponent's army. What do you guys think? Both are awesome games in their own right, but my indecisiveness strikes again!

[Flying Carcass]

The Total War series (haven't played Shogun 2 yet, personally) is all about troop movement. You can speed up, slow down, and pause the battle while you make tactical decisions and move your troops across the battlefield. Stuff like surrounding the enemy, covering flanks, taking the high ground, advancing and withdrawing troops, protecting artillery, using effective counters, and timing cavalry charges are important. When playing the campaign mode, managing cities, information gathering, and diplomacy are crucial.

Dawn of War 2 plays very similar to Company of Heroes, though with much more unit variety. You move small squads and champions around the map and fight to control key points on the map, which grant you a revenue of resources or count down towards victory. Game play revolves around controlling these points and denying your opponent access to them. There's also a story mode. Its much faster paced than Total War.

[nenjin]

I'm more fond toward Dawn of War because of the familiar cover system (From Company of Heroes) and it's emphasis on the tactical components of an RTS (Making it an RTT), without the need for crazy korean actions per minute.

I haven't touched Shogun 2 or any of the games in that vein.

But I can say as an avid Relic and 40k fan, that Dawn of War 2 requires an adjustment in your expectations. Company of Heroes it is NOT, in many many ways. Terrain is less nuanced, cover is less important, the game is much zergier, and the emphasis on heavy weapons and 'splosions means the game is more about sustained, overwhelming firepower (and well-timed click abilities) than it is about capitalizing on terrain advantages (which DoW 2 makes a token gesture towards, compared to CoH where every part of the map created tactical considerations.)

The game is "fun" and has all that meta-RPG stuff going, which is good. But the gameplay itself feels pretty mindless, especially the SP. Maybe it's the smaller number of units, maybe its the persistence of your characters, but I don't feel like I'm in the middle of a war zone in DoW 2. I feel like I'm playing through a bland action novel set in 40k. The challenges come in the form of unique-ish boss fights, and the occasional concentration of emplaced enemy heavy weapons which will ruin your squad (and your score for the level, which means less experience for the mission.)

So really, I think Shogun 2 is probably a better buy. DoW 2 does have MP, but you have to like the system its built on to enjoy it, and I really don't. DoW 2 pretty much felt like a shallower game than CoH, and about as deep as DoW 1. The only thing it rises above those two titles in is the campaign meta game, which any RPGer will like, and the graphics. But considering those are two things I DONT actively look for in RTS games, DoW 2 has felt like a big let down to me. You will not find the kind of deep, protracted fights you could get into in CoH, in DoW 2. They simply don't exist.

Its much faster paced than Total War.

To the point where defense is non-existent. That's why I hated the MP mode for DoW 2. It's about every player circling the map with a horde of guys, avoiding any defensive positions, to strike at your teleport platform. I could spend 4 hours playing a skirmish of Company of Heroes, creating artillery emplacements, mine fields, barricades and crazy ass defensive positions, before I even deigned to go on offense. In DoW 2, if you're not attacking, you're wasting time. Just way too frantic. Hence why they came up with the stupid moniker "real-time tactics" as opposed to "real-time strategy."

It's even enshrined in the SP campaign, where you you get graded on how well you did in the mission. On average, if you want maximum performance for the level, you have to beat it in under 10 minutes. They literally envisioned DoW 2 as a game about storming through tons of enemy positions without stopping. Which is fun for about 2 levels.

[Thexor]

When in doubt, check for demos. In this case, Shogun 2 has a demo available on Steam, and a few seconds on Google led me to demo for DoWII (the original, not Retribution, but it'll be similar at least).


The two games play very differently. A decision will basically come down to personal choice; hence, I'd strongly recommend you try the demos and decide for yourself. 


(Either that, or buy whichever has a 75% off sale next!)

[3]

In addition to what's already been said: Note that MP DoWII is significantly more intense and possibly more APM-heavy than MP StarCraft II, because 1. it's faster paced and more immediate, 2. more micromanagement is necessary and 3. every single decision you make carries massive weight. I can't play that game without feeling that if I make one mistake I'll be far enough behind to lose.

[nenjin]

Yes, there is no "drop a Heavy Bolter into heavy cover and let him close down a corridor." You'll get away with that against the poor AI, but against players its a no go. Your whole force has to be mobile and has to respond to every threat. It shows a lot in AI skirmishes because the AI will often walk RIGHT past your stationary units, randomly testing any corridor in the level it can until it finds something to kill. The main body will never attack points, the AI will send the equivalent of scouts to cap points while the main force just romps around destroying stuff.

[nuker w]

In all honesty, I woudint actually classify the two as being in the same genre. One involves the movement of unit in a place where terrain, weather and morale and the whole game is more about winning on the big map, whilst the other is more about how and when you use large amounts of units and theres no real impact from terrain and morale is non-existant. The game is also far more focused on the battle at hand as the entirety of importance with things such as control points and so on.

[LoSboccacc]

skip shogun and get dow2. it's even cheaper, so you can sneak in a copy of rome tw gold and enjoy the core of the gameplay without all the simplifications (added bonus: mods!)


or just get "the last standalone" which is all the multiplayer fun condensed in a small affordable package

[dogstile]

I've got both and I can honestly say Shogun is the better choice. I have no idea who say's its just smashing units together and hoping for the best. Its more like a puzzle game, each unit has weaknesses and strengths, you have counters for strategy's, tactics for different opponents.

I suppose if you did throw 200 ashigaru at 200 ashigaru it would be based on luck, but i've only done that in like, the opening battles of the game.

[Leatra]

Others though, say it's nothing more than smashing units together and a little luck.

No, each unit has a disadvantage and an advantage. It's not just that though. For example, You can hide your archers and use them to strike when the enemy thinks you got nothing. You can also focus on killing the enemy commander to make enemy troops rout more easily. People who say it's just "smashing units together" are probably forgot to use their brains while they play.

It's much more fun in multiplayer.

And if you played at least one Total War game you pretty much experienced every other game of the series.

[BurnedToast]

DoW 2 would have been great without the pants-on-head retarded retreat button. Set up the perfect ambush for your enemy? oops he mashes the get out of fail free button and escapes with 95% of his army intact!

Combined with the stupid decision to make the main base turrets realistically invulnerable (till late game) and give the base a super strong healing aura so you can't even chase his guys down.... yeah.

WH40k is supposed to be about epic, bloody battles - DoW 2 made it about spess mahrines running away all the time and playing king of the hill with the orks.

So get shogun 2.

[3]

DoW 2 would have been great without the pants-on-head retarded retreat button. Set up the perfect ambush for your enemy? oops he mashes the get out of fail free button and escapes with 95% of his army intact!

...except the entire game is about map control. You retreat, you forfeit your position and whatever you were trying to defend. Those units are as good as dead until they get back to base. You hang out near the base to heal and/or turtle and you don't have any map presence allowing your opponent to do whatever the hell they like and ultimately win because you have no income.

I mean, I don't think DoWII is the right choice here either, but let's at least be fair.

[Zrk2]

I know nothing about DoW II, but I can attest that all the Total War games I have played are very fun and quite addictive, as well as having a whole pile to do in the game, what with factions and all.

[Elfeater]

I like the Arena mode of DOWII. The MP could be defensive with larger groups of players. The orcs punding against my Elddar positions and being torn to shit.

[Rilder]

Never played DoW2 but I would recommend it over Shogun 2.  If you must have a Total war get Medieval 2 and download a couple mods which make it much better then S2.

Alternatively, just get a couple Paradox games which are better then both DoW2 and Shogun 2.

Crusader Kings 2 is coming in early February, you know you want it.