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Author Topic: military opinions  (Read 3203 times)

usgreth

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military opinions
« on: January 18, 2012, 08:15:14 pm »

I had a population check on my current fort, and noticed I am up to 185 dorfs. I have not really enlisted anyone in the military for ages (not needed to for sieges in a while). I only have 9 dorfs in the army (though 3 of them are -scary-) and I feel it is about time I upped it a bit especially if I want to clear the caverns of the forlorn fbs wandering about there. What sort of
%age of dorfs do people put in the military? Shame to see those pretty blue battle axes and armour idly siting in stockpiles ;)

Oh, one more thing, Say I had a dorf who has not yet had a funny mood, had skills say novice weaponsmith and adequate clothier. If I got him making some crappy copper weapons until his weaponsmith skill overtook his clothier skill would he be more likely to take over a forge than a clothiers?
I've had enough toy boats, sandals and mugs thanks!
Usg.
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Elifre

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 08:21:40 pm »

For a military, I use every dwarf with good mining skills and at least decent military skills. This is usually 20-30% of the population, though a fair number of these dwarves also serve as my mining crew throughout the year.

For a militia, any dwarf in a squad with copper armour, a copper crossbow, and copper bolts can be part of a defense involving a deadly barrage of hundreds of randomly fired missiles. These guys make a good backup team for your military, or a last-ditch effort to save a fort. Enlist everyone in your fort that isn't absolutely vital for survival, make them equip the uniform, then set them to inactive until you -really- need them.
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Nan

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 09:15:49 pm »

It doesn't hurt to put basically everyone into squads and give them weapons and armor. Even if they never actually train and are kept permanently inactive (meaning they perform civilian duties), you can still activate them to fight off dangers. Untrained dwarves aren't nearly as effective as well trained dwarves, but what they lack in skill, they can make up for in sheer numbers.

The only dwarves you shouldn't put in squads, are those "legendary civilians" such as weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, farmers, miners - who are critical for your fortress operation. Ideally the smiths should even be kept safely in a burrow, deep underground. Actually you can put them in a squad and give them quality armor, and it'll make them very hard for some random invader to "assassinate", but the problem is you might actually send their squad into battle... So it's kind of safer to just keep them as civvies.

Oh, one more thing, Say I had a dorf who has not yet had a funny mood, had skills say novice weaponsmith and adequate clothier. If I got him making some crappy copper weapons until his weaponsmith skill overtook his clothier skill would he be more likely to take over a forge than a clothiers?

It's not more likely; it's guaranteed :D. Dwarves always mood based on their highest moodable skill. Mass production of copper bolts is a good way to develop weaponsmith skill.
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 03:20:48 am »

I tend to go for 40% or so military (meaning melee fighters). These are recruited from the lyemakers and animal dissectors of the fort.  Arming everyone with melee weapons is a recipe for a terrible tantrum spiral.

I do counterintuitively put my legendaries and nobles into marksdwarf squads (as many as necessary) but give them no orders to train or ever send them into battle.  Over time they train on their own and end up pretty decent shots, which is very helpful if they get into trouble while enjoying a cavern statue garden. They also manage much better in tantrum spirals.
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kardwill

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 03:30:34 am »

I go with a 15-20% full time military. I toyed with the idea of a civ. militia to keep everyone armed in my current embark (my first haunted embark. With a multi-level aquifer (already breached 4 z-levels, and there are more to go before I can hit sweet rock. Yay!)
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malroth

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 03:51:25 am »

1 crossbow and 3 stacks of wooden or bone bolts per civillian,   and melee dwarves train in squads of 3 all with the same weapon type usually starting with fair quality bronze or silver since i like to take tetrahedrite with me on embark.
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King DZA

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 05:20:52 am »

For Gorerape? 33 soldiers(out of a pop. of 206)split into squads of 3. The melee squads all have mismatched weaponry, as they get to use whatever weapon they were skilled in before being recruited. If they had no weapon skill, I simply let them choose whatever they want. Training alternates every half year. Half of them train during spring and summer, the other half during fall and winter. Twelve out of the thirty-three are marksdwarves.

For every other fort? Usually a pretty pathetic amount that manages to just barely hold off the first couple invader assaults before being ruthlessly slaughtered by the second or so siege.

Monkeyfacedprickleback

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 05:32:12 am »

My choice of military Varies based on location. Peaceful and good biomes need maybe 5-10% population, If you have a decent guard as well and have safe walls. Terrifying biomes need 70-80% Military. Not to deal with the threats but I generally have two Main elite squads, and Having a large number of civilian recruits training help keep a fluid base of reserves. Plus now everydorf has a iron helm, and a breastplate.
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Psieye

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 09:42:02 am »

All my haulers (a large portion of the population) double as crossbowdwarves when it's siege time and there's not much hauling to do.
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Elf Lover

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 10:29:00 am »

I tend to have a Soviet Russia approach to the military.
Is that a siege I see? Draft everyone into the military, and send them out with their bare hands.

If they manage to kill anything,the armour and weaponr belonging to said creature now belongs to the Dwarven Motherland.

HAIL SOVIET FORTRESS!
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Broseidon

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 10:40:30 am »

I tend to have a Soviet Russia approach to the military.
Is that a siege I see? Draft everyone into the military, and send them out with their bare hands.

If they manage to kill anything,the armour and weaponr belonging to said creature now belongs to the Dwarven Motherland.

HAIL SOVIET FORTRESS!

Leatherworker by day
Crutch walker by night :P

For my fortress ill take any dwarves with high military skill in the military regardless.

My max is about 6 squads of 10 all with battle axes(i dont like dwarves with all different weapons i like to keep it uniformed.

And at least 20 solid marksdwarves, but as population rises i replace dead axe dwarves and always add to my marksdwarfs. 

I found out that having too many melee soldiers leads to very unhappy wives that like to break mayors arms and go to prison for 400 days
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:45:25 am by Broseidon »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 03:03:19 pm »

I tend to have a Soviet Russia approach to the military.
Is that a siege I see? Draft everyone into the military, and send them out with their bare hands.

If they manage to kill anything,the armour and weaponr belonging to said creature now belongs to the Dwarven Motherland.

HAIL SOVIET FORTRESS!

Ha ha, Teh Dwarfling rush method.

HAIL THE MOUNTAINHOMES!

Rude

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 05:16:28 pm »

I embark with 2 peasants and with wood training axes or the stuff to make bronze / bis. bronze axes (depending on what I expect is available and what I plan to do. E.g.: if lots of trees, then just 1 training axe or even just 2 logs; 1 for carpenter WS, 1 for the axe to get more logs -- I leave the wagon intact until I unload it bc I think it makes a tacky mess if I take it apart.) The first thing I do is build a cabinet and plop it haphazardly right in the entrance to the fort and assign the 2 peasants to train NONSTOP (they get the best housing as soon as housing is available -- usually a metal statue in the bedroom is enough to make them forget the "enraged by long patrol" or whatever.)

By about 1 - 1.5 yrs in they are elite or almost elite. I've seen 1 unarmored dwarf with a cheap copper axe flay several ironclad ambushes 1 after the other. btw, armor is heavy and slows your dwarfs down. sure it GREATLY increases survivability, but it also increases the survivability of any smart enough to route.
Just be careful about the gobby xbows and bows and try to keep the ratio of gobs to elites less than 1:10 tho usually they kill them in about 2 pages of combat in the logs so they never really fight more than 3 or 4 at any given time before the rest of the gobs' squad arrives. If the dwarf is distracted by fighting he could be hit by a lucky bolt, but most of the time they just dodge or block it (btw I give them shields when I get them -- often wood, but I prefer copper)

As soon as I get 2 elites, I move 1 to another squad and fill both squads to 3 dwarves each -- 1 elite, 2 trainees. They train up pretty quick. If I feel like I have useless peasants, I continue splitting up elite squads into 1:2 learning groups. The rate of military growth increases exponentially, but not nearly as fast as the total population grows. I find that about 10 dwarfs can handle most situations but sometimes I want to go in 5 directions and only have 3 squads. So more squads is more important to me than having many dwarfs in every squad.

The reason I put the cabinet in the entrance is so that they train right next to where they will be needed and they are often the ones to catch thieves. ( kinda like the wiki's recommendation to chain dogs in the entry hallway, but dogs rarely send severed parts sailing.) Since most military skills train agility, they are FAST and fleeing gobs hardly have a chance. When the fort gets rolling and I have time to work on little projects I build a wall in such a way that gob archers have to get pretty close before they can fire at the guards and usually they don't get many shots off -- often times, I don't even have to give orders for them to take care of ambushes and if I do, its usually to rescue a woodcutter or sock chasing noble. I rarely close my fort off from access to the rest of the world -- my defenses are made of flesh, not stone. But I do make choke points. If and when I breach into the caverns then I plop a cabinet down there too. since by that time I definitely have at least 2 squads.

When I get around to armor, I get everyone a helmet ASAP. Then shields, breastplates, greaves, boots, gauntlets. In that order. Reason for helmets is in case someone "gives in to pain." If any peasant gob walks up to him with a wooden stick or a sock, then every hit goes directly to the head. Shields are wonderful for saving your dwarfs, but by this point most have wood already, I just upgrade to copper or whatever is available. Greaves and boots, because I would rather have dwarfs missing a hand than dwarfs moving VERY slow on crutches until they get to legendary crutch walker (which, btw, isn't bad since it contributes to attributes). Then gauntlets just to finish out the suit. I never really finish making armor (bc of metal scarcity) until either everyone has masterwork pieces or all the accessible good stuff is exhausted. I never sell excess metal -- I always melt it.

If I do archers at all (and I often do because of FB rot breath) I check to see if there are untamed animals wandering the map. If there are, then I just recruit a few hunters and a bone carver. If not, then I build archery ranges (about 1 per recruit) and wooden bolts. If not much wood, then I don't do archers. I rarely make metal bolts because I turn metal rarity up quit a bit (bc I like to build my bedrooms out of uniform marble layers and veins can be ugly). But if I have excess then I only build metal bolts to train weaponsmiths. Either way, when they get elite, then I cycle them out from "training / hunting" to "patrolling" and put them in key gobby escape routs / approaches to help soften up intruders before they get to the melee kill zone or to cripple escapees. I build "towers" that are accessible only from underground / inside the fort. I use burrows / schedules to keep them where I want them. and give them TONES of bolts. Both designated in the ammunition screen and in smallish stockpiles nearby the towers. I put bolt production on repeat and let the workshops get cluttered when the (small) stockpiles are full so I don't have to be bothered with managing too much bin production. This requires that whoever makes bolts is completely dedicated to bolt production bc I can't rely on him to do anything else in a timely manner.

I honor military personnel with extravagant rooms and platinum statued tombs, but I mostly consider any one individual dwarf expendable and I don't mind sending them into danger. They were volunteered into the army, after all, weren't they? But they are responsible for the success of the whole fort so I am pretty careful with them. I go through a quite few crutches every year, and I don't know if some of them get much use out of their shields anymore... but it works fairly well so far.

Eventually I'll trade with the gobs long enough to get enough iron to get full steel equipment (or get lucky on an embark), but most of the older soldiers will be attached to their crappy axes by then. Or even named them. Sometimes the gobs don't have iron so I gotta trade for it from the others, but they don't give it up as cheap. Sometimes no one has iron so I gotta put up with hell.
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sobriquet

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 05:31:31 pm »

This was helpful. 

**sips swamp whisky**
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gunnarig

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Re: military opinions
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 12:16:01 am »

I usualy embark with two hunters and one woodcutter all with 2-3 in their relevant weapons skills and ambusher for the hunters due to the free bow and arrows and leather armor they bring with them if the ambusher is their highest skill. also WARDOGS!!

i bring 2 females and one male dog and then when their spores have transfered and they have made puppies i train them to wardogs usualy by year 2-3 i have at least 8 wardogs or close to it. anyways the beggining dwarfs form the core of my military usualy first i go for a Axedwarf squad and ban them from using other weapons my squads are usualy about 4-9 in size with half of them training all the time. then i make a marksdwarf squad with all the hunters usualy you get several hunters migrating so they are quite nice for military duty without much effort.

Regarding the dogs i usualy assign a pair of dogs to each dwarf ive seen dogs do amazing things like shaking an cyclops by its eyelid wich is kinda nice to picture in your mind

Then its last but not least. the RAINBOW squad. those are all the lye makers and expert fish disectors that are given spears i usualy pick up from dead goblins. they have the same training routine as the others but everyone that has no specific weapon skill or no axe skill goes to that squad sometimes i luck out and get a good spearman to lead the squad i arm these guys with stuff i pick up from goblins and they tend to be the last resort squad. or the first one to go in if i get a FUN beast.

i have never really been that lucky to find quantities of iron so all these guys make do with bronze and copper i find making silver bolts is actualy quite nice too and also the goblins tend to bring iron weapons. the few bars i get from trading are used for axes and then breastplates+helmets.

Well this aint a godlike aproach but i kinda never make any walls and make few traps becuse i kinda feel the traps are a bit overpowered at the moment. also i make a 3 wide corridor that leads to my main hallway and i then make a pasture for all the dogs in that hallway so any extra wardogs should catch the snatchers but i have never had to put that to the test so i could be wrong about that one.
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