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[Willfor]

So many people seem to forget the sheer amount of time and energy a lot of people in technical careers and blue collar positions in movie productions have invested to be as good at bringing the production values as they are right now. I don't care if you don't give a crap about the plot lines of most movies coming out of Hollywood, they employ a lot of people who have sunk considerable amounts of either student loans to pay for their trade skills education, or a good deal of time focusing exclusively on learning their jobs on a movie set. And they earn all the money they make sinking 14+ hour days working under high pressure conditions to help someone else fulfill an artistic (or not) vision. And they do make money. Just perhaps not as much as corporate executives want them too.

My own experience on a volunteer movie set proved to me that yes, it's entirely possible that people will still make movies, even good ones, without the massive cash base of Hollywood. However, even with every single person on the set volunteering their services, these things surprisingly still cost money.

Maybe I just don't want to have to eat cat food to be able to contribute art to this dystopian world where we punish our most creative people by telling them that they have to constantly destroy their own energy by holding down three jobs to not even be able to afford rent at the end of the day. All because they can't actually make any money from what they are contributing to society.

[Nadaka]

I am not pro piracy. I am anti perversion and extension of simple copyright. 14 years is more than enough.

[nenjin]

Maybe I just don't want to have to eat cat food to be able to contribute art to this dystopian world where we punish our most creative people by telling them that they have to constantly destroy their own energy by holding down three jobs to not even be able to afford rent at the end of the day. All because they can't actually make any money from what they are contributing to society.

If you think this is about the artists, or even the crews, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. They don't work on credit. They get paid for their labor, and artists make their royalties decades later. Now, if you want to argue that piracy forces executives to screw over artists when they strike their initial deals, I'd agree. But again, ask who the gatekeepers ultimately are in this equation. Who should you be expecting to act better? The entire public, or the people you chose to enter into a contract with?

And let's not forget the multitudes of creative people out there that make money successfully because their product is worth it, and they retain control of their own product. They're not working 3 jobs and "eating cat food" to survive, because they don't accept the belief that the industry is the only way they can succeed.

[Tilla]

Maybe I just don't want to have to eat cat food to be able to contribute art to this dystopian world where we punish our most creative people by telling them that they have to constantly destroy their own energy by holding down three jobs to not even be able to afford rent at the end of the day. All because they can't actually make any money from what they are contributing to society.

If you think this is about the artists, or even the crews, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. They don't work on credit. They get paid for their labor, and artists make their royalties decades later. Now, if you want to argue that piracy forces executives to screw over artists when they strike their initial deals, I'd agree. But again, ask who the gatekeepers ultimately are in this equation. Who should you be expecting to act better? The entire public, or the people you chose to enter into a contract with?

And let's not forget the multitudes of creative people out there that make money successfully because their product is worth it, and they retain control of their own product. They're not working 3 jobs and "eating cat food" to survive, because they don't accept the belief that the industry is the only way they can succeed.

I don't think Willfor is coming out in favor of PIPA and the MPAA; he's saying: don't take this out on an industry which employs hundreds of thousands of hardworking, middle class people as the OP has proposed.

[Nadaka]

The MAFIAA and RIAA use "creative accounting" to make sure that the "artists" get the tiniest possible payout and keep the vast vast majority for themselves. Some other organizations will even take pay out for artists they do not represent and never reimburse them.

[nenjin]

And I want to add I appreciate how many people the industry employees. Batman: Arkham City? It's credits roll was longer than major most motion pictures. At least 150 people cited in their credits, some of whom their relationship to the game itself was so nebulous, there were 4 vice president positions per department in some of the major media holding companies that had something to do with it. It reminded me how many people the industry employs, from executives to quality assurance testers, while at the same time making me wonder why some of these people are employed.

[Criptfeind]

Issue: Industry is somewhat bloated. Some artists are scammed out of money that is rightfully theirs.

Solution: Nuke industry. Make sure no one gets any money, including the artists.

[Nadaka]

Issue: Industry is somewhat bloated. Some artists are scammed out of money that is rightfully theirs.

Solution: Nuke industry. Make sure no one gets any money, including the artists.

Im not advocating nuking the industry. I advocate sane copyright laws.

[Willfor]

Basically, Tilla covered what I meant, though I was also addressing at the same time the comments that said that art is its own reward.

And yes, artists are currently getting the shortest end of the stick as it is. At the very least the tradespeople involved in artistic production get paid immediately for their work. That's why I'm entering into a creative tradesperson's trade myself, so I can work to bring other people's creative endeavors to life while simultaneously being able to afford to work on my own art. Because even if I manage to become part of the top 10% of best selling authors, I would never be able to live off of my writing. Bestselling authors today can't afford to live off of what they are making from their books unless they are constantly delivering new product to the market. And even then it's a good deal of luck and a whole lot of sacrifice.

So basically, what I am for is artists getting paid, and also tradespeople who work in the cultural industry getting paid. And even though that does not exist as much as it should in today's world, I'm not sure killing that product to spite the executives is the right way to go about it. Because without the product, everyone involved loses. With that same product under new management, only the previous management loses. And really, it's this management that we are targeting.

[Criptfeind]

Issue: Industry is somewhat bloated. Some artists are scammed out of money that is rightfully theirs.

Solution: Nuke industry. Make sure no one gets any money, including the artists.

Im not advocating nuking the industry. I advocate sane copyright laws.

Good for you.

[Nadaka]

My idea: return copyright to 14 years from date of publish.
Repeal all these counter-constitutional BS powers granted to media corporations.
Restore the right of first sale.
Restore fair use.
Restore the right to personal backup.
Restore the right to modify your own media.

There you go. Copyright is fixed.

[Criptfeind]

Look. Maybe it is because it is past midnight here, but I fail to see what that has to do with me.

Rule of thumb, if I say "you are insane" and you are not insane I was not talking to you.

[Nadaka]

If I don't quote you directly, I may not necessarily responding to you (or at least you alone).

[Criptfeind]

Well.

You did quote me directly.

So now we live in a world where you were responding to me.

[Max White]

Wow, you two should play nice and stop not insulting each other.